Force protection vehicles, where are they?

#1
Whilst a RAF Brize Norton I saw FPV heading outboud. My son is in 2LI and has not seen sight of them, are these the vehicles that were promised in November for Afghanistan and Iraq ? If yes, they why are they not there? :evil:
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#2
pegasus_horse said:
Whilst a RAF Brize Norton I saw FPV heading outboud. My son is in 2LI and has not seen sight of them, are these the vehicles that were promised in November for Afghanistan and Iraq ? If yes, they why are they not there? :evil:
With a 60% pay and allowances rise for MP's how do you think the MOD is going to afford them - now see sence. :twisted:
 
#3
Latest reps from HERRICK indicate the new WMIK is having significant problems and the whole mobility thing is a nightmare. THe only vehicles that is still able to get out regularly is VIKING.
For the rest of the units about to deploy the nightmar is getting enough driving licenses. Due to the up-armour on every vehicle they now all weigh in at more than 3.5 tonnes and therefore need a C1 licesne to drive. Leconfield is already over capacity so we are just throwing money at the problem to get guys driver trained on civilian contracts. On the plus side 3 Cdo Bde are saying lots of nice things about the 2LI Coy. (although they need to shower more - stinking purse)
 
B

Bottleosmoke

Guest
#4
Dont forget that all the new vehicles that we have bought for operations cannot be driven on UK roads legally so driver training is currently carried out in Cyprus............
When DST do get them they will be swamped with requests for training.....................And wont, understandly, be able to cope, forcing units to deploy without trained drivers......................

.........is it just me?
 
#5
Bottleosmoke said:
Dont forget that all the new vehicles that we have bought for operations cannot be driven on UK roads legally so driver training is currently carried out in Cyprus............
When DST do get them they will be swamped with requests for training.....................And wont, understandly, be able to cope, forcing units to deploy without trained drivers......................

.........is it just me?
So in essence we have yet another well thought out and totally waterproof plan..........total batsh!t.......again!!!!

What happened to common sense and good planning, the sort of stuff that we used to see on a daily basis?

Bottleosmoke, you are not alone in this thought.


fastmedic
 
B

Bottleosmoke

Guest
#6
Dont get me started.........."Oh lets buy 100 super doopa vehicles, send them all to theatre without letting deploying troops get a look"

Dont get me wrong. I am very sad every time a soldier falls but whenever i see fatal RTA stats which are ultimatley due to a lack of driver training, I could weep.

Feck me, I should be an MD.....................................Doh!
 
#7
Bottleosmoke said:
Dont get me wrong. I am very sad every time a soldier falls but whenever i see fatal RTA stats which are ultimatley due to a lack of driver training, I could weep.
We're on around 50 fatalities per year from RTI's, I don't think that's gonna get any lower.

Do you know of any evidence to suggest a lack of driver training is contributing to this figure ?
 
#8
Goose_Rider said:
Bottleosmoke said:
Dont get me wrong. I am very sad every time a soldier falls but whenever i see fatal RTA stats which are ultimatley due to a lack of driver training, I could weep.
We're on around 50 fatalities per year from RTI's, I don't think that's gonna get any lower.

Do you know of any evidence to suggest a lack of driver training is contributing to this figure ?
I've done a lot of off road driving, some of it in open desert. I've seen a lot of instances where people who are competent enough on the road get things badly wrong on open piste. Driving too fast, turning too hard (especially relevant with a WMIK which after all is a grossly overloaded and top heavy landrover) and failing to lookout for "escape routes" when faced with a sudden obstacle, all contribute to the accident rate.
I had a driver who was well used to driving Land Rovers, on and off road and who had been driving my Bedford for 3-4 days. Thought he could chuck the Bedford round the desert like you could a lightly loaded Land Rover. Fortunately I was there to stop him and bollock him but he nearly had it over.
Doing it in formation when you're on your chinstrap and rounds are flying about requires a lot of practice in my view.
 
#9
Bottleosmoke said:
Dont get me wrong. I am very sad every time a soldier falls but whenever i see fatal RTA stats which are ultimatley due to a lack of driver training, I could weep.
I thought they were mainly due to excessive speed and not wearing a seatbelt.

msr
 
B

Bottleosmoke

Guest
#10
Attitude has a lot to do with it too.
I dont care what you say and FMD's will hopefully back me up.
Co's with a "dont give a feck" attitude to ....lets say "familiarisation" on speciallist vehicles will send more boys back in bodybags on the quiet than any those involved in real fighting.

Its a waste. I know we're all strapped but ffs lets get it right.
 
#12
OldRedCap said:
Not seen anything about this in the meeja.
Journos come sniffing round us but seems they are like police - never there when you want one.
This is one the times when media could be useful to us, so if your`e lurking out there guys get in contact.
 
#14
pegasus_horse said:
OldRedCap said:
Not seen anything about this in the meeja.
Journos come sniffing round us but seems they are like police - never there when you want one.
This is one the times when media could be useful to us, so if your`e lurking out there guys get in contact.
You lot would be very, very surprised to know just how much of the media scans and monitors ARRSE daily, this story like many other current ones are being noted and assessed.
 
#15
littoraldifficulty said:
Latest reps from HERRICK indicate the new WMIK is having significant problems and the whole mobility thing is a nightmare. THe only vehicles that is still able to get out regularly is VIKING.
For the rest of the units about to deploy the nightmar is getting enough driving licenses. Due to the up-armour on every vehicle they now all weigh in at more than 3.5 tonnes and therefore need a C1 licesne to drive. Leconfield is already over capacity so we are just throwing money at the problem to get guys driver trained on civilian contracts.
spot on were getting lots of ewmix in bastion at the mo as all the old wimex and snatch 2 r fuked the terrain destroys all types of wagons down here and no there are not any of those new bits of kit in helmand at the mo
 
#16
First 18 should have flown from Cyprus after having all the kit integrated on to them a few days ago. I know this batch were going to TELIC but I don't know which unit.

Remainder are following at about 20 a month until they finish delivering the whole 100+ by May. It takes time to build these beasts and then bring them all the way from east coast of the US of A.

You will start seeing them pretty soon I think.
 
#17
littoraldifficulty said:
Latest reps from HERRICK .... On the plus side 3 Cdo Bde are saying lots of nice things about the 2LI Coy.
Yeah but the question is; "are the lads from 2LI saying good things about the cabbage heads"? :wink:
 
#18
armchair_jihad said:
pegasus_horse said:
OldRedCap said:
Not seen anything about this in the meeja.
Journos come sniffing round us but seems they are like police - never there when you want one.
This is one the times when media could be useful to us, so if your`e lurking out there guys get in contact.
You lot would be very, very surprised to know just how much of the media scans and monitors ARRSE daily, this story like many other current ones are being noted and assessed.


I have noticed that we usually have a lot more visitors than members on ARRSE. At present 48 members 77 visitors. If you check on normal working weekdays it is an even higher percentage.
 
#19
Bottlesmoke wrote"whenever I see fatal RTA stats, which are ultimately due to a lack of driver training I could weep"

Msr wrote " I thought they were mainly due to excessive speed and not wearing a seat belt"

Anyone will know from my previous posts how I feel about a lack of driver training and familiarisation training. I realise that much more current and technical equipment is being discussed for use in war zones, but the comments of Bottlesmoke & Msr struck a chord with me.

My son would still be alive if the rules had been adhered to. The driver who crashed the Land Rover Wolf, which resulted in the deaths of three young men, had not been familiarised to drive left hand drive in Germany. He had failed the matrix test 10 times (in one sitting) passing on the eleventh. He left without a signed work ticket. And then the seat belts (front two) failed and tore apart. This was his first journey out of camp.

Would my son still be alive if the seat belts hadn't failed? how often do seat belts fail?

After I lost my son, I was told on more that one occasion that the armies biggest loss of personnel is down to RTA's than anything else, well isn't it time they started to do something about it?

I have said it before and shall continue to say it, most lads pass their driving test in the army, after a week or so - many then go abroad, then they are suddenly with little experience driving on the other side of the road, then let them loose in a powerful vehicle, resulting in....well I know the answer to that.

More driver training, more familiarisation, more safety, and more adherence to the rules.
What is the point in having them, if they can just be broken at any time to suit the army?
 
#20
FPVs are a defensive measure. I seem to recall our move into armoured pigs in 1967, for patrols in Aden. It was a simple admission that we'd lost the war - we pulled out a few months later. Why are we going all defensive in Iraq & Afghanistan when, basically, we're winning the war?....Oh, sorry - didn't read the latest headlines from the US press. Why don't they send these ********* out & make them do a stint of real soldiering - boredom included - & make them report on that? Cheers.
Cliff.
 

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