Food banks

Anytime you want to try your hand at teaching modern teenagers there'll be schools all over the country just crying out for your assistance. I'd give you an hour before the kids had stitched you up and you're wearing handcuffs and on your way to the custody suite, and looking forward to segregation while you do your bird..

Ha, I couldn't manage it with postgrads doing masters degrees. The lot of them turned up in my computer lab and none of them had done the work set for them to show me. They all expected me to show them how to do it, rather than me advising them on where they could improve. Several drill instructors would have been proud of me, not so much my supervising professor.
 
You said every child should be involved in cooking the school lunch at least once a week. An average secondary school has around 1,000 kids so that's a year group of 200 kids cooking at once every day.

It's controlled lunacy when there are 30 of the younger, keener ones in a food tech lesson and takes them the best part of 2 hours to produce something edible, get the mess cleared up, count back in all the knives etc.

Now imagine shoving 7 times that many into a confined space, many of whom are stroppy 15 and 16 year olds, and hoping they turn out something edible without stabbing or burning each other or themselves in a quarter of the time.

Understanding nutrition - breaking the cycle of ignorance - is much more than trying to cram 200 kids into a kitchen to peel spuds.
I have seen school initiatives where planting, growing fruit and veg is part of the curriculum.
That is part of food education - ultimately it provides the spuds to be prepared, teaches the patience and care required to put food on a table.
I have not witnessed animal husbandry at schools - but it is not beyond the whit of man to have a few chickens , bee hives, goats/sheep/llamas etc nurtured by the kids - under the guidance of local adults.

If there is nowhere to do this, learn nuffink - maybe this is why drug dealing and stabbing rivals becomes an easy option ...... innit bro ?
As to the poor results of some, there are more factors than I could list. Off the top of my head the biggest ones are:
lack of reading at young ages leading to effective illiteracy later on (they can read words but lack the reading comprehension to understand what the main points of a text are)
lack of parental involvement
lack of engagement, sometimes from a lack of ability but usually from a habitual lack of effort or self esteem

That is so depressing.

Stupid breeds stupid - and Society rewards it with a house and Benefits and the prisons just get fuller.
 

TamH70

MIA
If it was an easily fixed problem then it would have been fixed. Turn around national crap nutrition and the associated health issues in later life for almost no cost? Surefire vote winner.


Is this time coming out of lesson time or is the school day being extended? Twenty minutes cooking, plus ten minutes for prep before and cleaning after, plus another 5 minutes for moving between lessons to the cooking area is almost 114 hours per academic year.

Who is supervising this? What is going to happen when ********* don't want to muck in? What happens when someone deliberately does a poor job or violates food safety rules? It's not an issue if Joe Bloggs spits in their own food during food tech lessons, it's a much bigger deal if their food is being served up to the rest of the school.


Where is the halal, kosher, veggie etc. options? As soon as they are not provided and there is no choice say hello to a lawsuit. If you're allowing a packed lunch option to avoid that then the scheme is flawed as the packed lunches of the kids you most want to target are usually the shittest in terms of nutritional quality.


Agreed, there is no reason for kids to leave a school site during the day. Anyone going home for lunch should be able to bring a packed lunch in with them.


It works for a catering college as their students are doing catering all day. It's simply not practical in a school.


You can't make me. What are you going to do, put me in detention?

Halal? Kosher? Too early in the morning for that argument.

Vegetarian food l have no real problems with - unless it's being forced on normal kids who are gleefully omnivore and will eat anything that is or is not moving if they are hungry enough - out of fear or laziness on the part of school administrators. Then I have a problem. Same deal with veganism, although I will go to my grave convinced that this is an idiocy best saved for adulthood.
 
Ah, yes. The pay the poor low wages to keep them industrious, pay them high wages and they won't work as hard. Your name Gradgrind, by any chance?

At present, I work 12 hour shifts for ~£9/ hour (excluding travel). I wouldn't expect people to do something I wouldn't be prepared to do myself (I've always felt this was a good army maxim), hence my original post. I'm not thrilled about it but I have a mortgage etc to pay.
 
At present, I work 12 hour shifts for ~£9/ hour (excluding travel). I wouldn't expect people to do something I wouldn't be prepared to do myself (I've always felt this was a good army maxim), hence my original post. I'm not thrilled about it but I have a mortgage etc to pay.

I'm not having a pop at people on min wages. It's a paraphrase of the argument used by the Victorian and Edwardian establishment. In short, another and earlier version of Gordon Gecko's greed is good.
 
Halal? Kosher? Too early in the morning for that argument.

Vegetarian food l have no real problems with - unless it's being forced on normal kids who are gleefully omnivore and will eat anything that is or is not moving if they are hungry enough - out of fear or laziness on the part of school administrators. Then I have a problem. Same deal with veganism, although I will go to my grave convinced that this is an idiocy best saved for adulthood.
I know what you mean, buuuut - I *would* have 'compulsory (pulse!) veg & vegan meals.
Not trumpeted and signalled, though.
Like you said, kids ought to eat most things and enjoying/experiencing/tolerating meals without meat might get them interested in cooking different styles and away from 'dinner's gotta be a sausage or burger'. Cheaper too.
 
Mrs D63 usually does the shopping. Sunday dinner often roast chicken, one of the organic duchy of Cornwall jobs at £12-15 from Waitrose. Last Saturday she sent me to get one. None of the Duchy’s finest left so I got a Waitrose Essential chicken, use by same day so less than a fiver. No discernible taste difference, fed 3 of us for lunch and enough left for a sandwich, curry the rest with a can of chickpeas for bulk and make soup with the carcass (boiling it with some past their best veg so not rocket science).
Pasta with butter and grated cheese, tin of sardines and a chopped up tomato, fried egg sandwich, have all served as my wfh lunches. Now ok these are by choice not necessity, but a chicken, some rice, a few spices and tins of tomatoes chickpeas etc can provide decent meals for a week.
 
If it was an easily fixed problem then it would have been fixed. Turn around national crap nutrition and the associated health issues in later life for almost no cost? Surefire vote winner...

The will to fix is lacking and the culture of rights and entitlement will sink it without a trace. That culture is your major stumbling block. Making the dole dependant responsible for their own shit will result in overflowing panties and epic sulking, siezed upon and encouraged by the media.

It'll be painful short term, but sadly no one thinks beyond short term. The long term benefits of resiliance and an improved standard of living will be seen as a bad thing by those who need a vacuous and dependant underclass they can manipulate by outrage and jealousy.
 
I have seen school initiatives where planting, growing fruit and veg is part of the curriculum.
That is part of food education - ultimately it provides the spuds to be prepared, teaches the patience and care required to put food on a table.
I have not witnessed animal husbandry at schools - but it is not beyond the whit of man to have a few chickens , bee hives, goats/sheep/llamas etc nurtured by the kids - under the guidance of local adults.

If there is nowhere to do this, learn nuffink - maybe this is why drug dealing and stabbing rivals becomes an easy option ...... innit bro ?

A lot of this stuff is just box ticking for when the external organisations come in to conduct inspections etc. This initiative was implemented at the place I used to work at but the kids weren't interested and there simply wasn't the staffing to consistently enable it.

I'm with Ortholith's general outlook on this (my SiL is a home economics teacher in a state high school so I have some insight into the typical state of things). Most of us are looking at this stuff through the lens of people who've generally had a decent pro-social upbringing.

If the kids are being failed in the 'home environment' (I use this term loosely as it's anything but) then typically schooling and all it offers is a waste of time. For every 1 kid that's appreciative of being in a relatively safe school environment around pro-social teachers and with a decent lunch, there are 10 kids who are self entitled, can't be arsed, think the state will wipe their arses for them once they leave school etc (it generally does for a lot of them) and the state makes allowances for this behaviour/ shirking responsibility 'cause wee Rory's frontal lobe isn't fully developed until age 25 etc etc.

The erosion of the stable home environment, having 2 parents, small communities that keep an eye on neglected kids etc is non existent compared to 20-30+ years ago.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
As said above if people had an ounce of responsibility they would cut their cloth according to their means. No Sky, designer clothes, fags or booze. People have lost their own idea of who is responsible for their own lives, and expect everything as a given instead of having to work for it.
Sky is to the chavvery as the Red Arrows are to the UK military - sacrosanct. And damn the reality.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
If it was an easily fixed problem then it would have been fixed. Turn around national crap nutrition and the associated health issues in later life for almost no cost? Surefire vote winner.


Is this time coming out of lesson time or is the school day being extended? Twenty minutes cooking, plus ten minutes for prep before and cleaning after, plus another 5 minutes for moving between lessons to the cooking area is almost 114 hours per academic year.

Who is supervising this? What is going to happen when ********* don't want to muck in? What happens when someone deliberately does a poor job or violates food safety rules? It's not an issue if Joe Bloggs spits in their own food during food tech lessons, it's a much bigger deal if their food is being served up to the rest of the school.


Where is the halal, kosher, veggie etc. options? As soon as they are not provided and there is no choice say hello to a lawsuit. If you're allowing a packed lunch option to avoid that then the scheme is flawed as the packed lunches of the kids you most want to target are usually the shittest in terms of nutritional quality.


Agreed, there is no reason for kids to leave a school site during the day. Anyone going home for lunch should be able to bring a packed lunch in with them.


It works for a catering college as their students are doing catering all day. It's simply not practical in a school.


You can't make me. What are you going to do, put me in detention?
You miss inverse snobbery.

Jamie Oliver got that when he tried to improve school meals - fat munters protesting about their kids being 'forced' to eat 'posh' food.
 
You miss inverse snobbery.

Excellent point, I wasn't overly familiar with this phrase until recently and now I see and hear examples of it frequently.

"Ma I don't want to eat that green mushy shite!"
"It's fine Rory only posh cnuts eat it anyway! Here have another turkey dinosaur."


I've nothing against turkey dinosaurs, smiley faces, curly fries, baked beans etc btw.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Mrs D63 usually does the shopping. Sunday dinner often roast chicken, one of the organic duchy of Cornwall jobs at £12-15 from Waitrose. Last Saturday she sent me to get one. None of the Duchy’s finest left so I got a Waitrose Essential chicken, use by same day so less than a fiver. No discernible taste difference, fed 3 of us for lunch and enough left for a sandwich, curry the rest with a can of chickpeas for bulk and make soup with the carcass (boiling it with some past their best veg so not rocket science).
Pasta with butter and grated cheese, tin of sardines and a chopped up tomato, fried egg sandwich, have all served as my wfh lunches. Now ok these are by choice not necessity, but a chicken, some rice, a few spices and tins of tomatoes chickpeas etc can provide decent meals for a week.
We always make a stock with a chicken carcass. Makes a great base for risottos and so on. It's real home economics but the realities have become reversed.

SWMBO and I have just finished a 30-day keto diet. She was/is already remarkably thrifty but across that 30-day period it was amazing how little waste we generated. A grated carrot went back in the fridge until there was pretty much nothing left to grate, and so on.

Cooking has in many cases become a middle-class sport. For many, it's too easy to go to Iceland.

A lot of uninformed comment on these types of threads note that many of those who claim to be 'unable to afford food' are obese. Yes, they are but they're probably also very nutrient poor. Constant McDonalds meals = an energy-rich, nutrient-poor diet.
 
A lot of uninformed comment on these types of threads note that many of those who claim to be 'unable to afford food' are obese. Yes, they are but they're probably also very nutrient poor. Constant McDonalds meals = an energy-rich, nutrient-poor diet.
More realistically for the ones I see breakfast is a can of Red Bull type energy drink and a Greggs slice or chocolate. Lunch is a big bag of crisps, more chocolate and Coke. Dinner is fast food and more fizzy drinks. Constant sweets and chewing gum throughout the day.

You can spot the middle class kids because they have named types of food instead of brands.
 
Halal? Kosher? Too early in the morning for that argument.

Vegetarian food l have no real problems with - unless it's being forced on normal kids who are gleefully omnivore and will eat anything that is or is not moving if they are hungry enough - out of fear or laziness on the part of school administrators. Then I have a problem. Same deal with veganism, although I will go to my grave convinced that this is an idiocy best saved for adulthood.
The issue isn't what anyone thinks about the merits of halal, kosher, veggie, vegan etc. The issue is that if you have a mandatory school lunch with no choice then you are denying the students the opportunity to exercise their deeply held beliefs. Any legal bod will make the case that is discrimination under the Equality Act.

Not that it would get to that stage as the first sign of parents kicking off and contacting the media about the school's islamophobic/anti-semitic/animal murdering stance will get the policy reversed quicker than you can say "Whoops".
 
The issue isn't what anyone thinks about the merits of halal, kosher, veggie, vegan etc. The issue is that if you have a mandatory school lunch with no choice then you are denying the students the opportunity to exercise their deeply held beliefs. Any legal bod will make the case that is discrimination under the Equality Act.
This is where the country gets it wrong, instead of pandering to religion, if you want to believe that sky pixies dictate your food then you pay extra for it.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Owen Jones tried to own Jacob Rees-Mogg on food banks and ended up getting owned. From about the eight-minute mark.

But... note: JRM gives a good reason why we should be proud of having food banks as it reflects the caring nature of those in society who have more. This was turned into shrieks on social media of 'JRM says we should be proud we have food banks', implying again that uncaring Tories want people to starve.

 
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Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I know what you mean, buuuut - I *would* have 'compulsory (pulse!) veg & vegan meals.
Not trumpeted and signalled, though.
Like you said, kids ought to eat most things and enjoying/experiencing/tolerating meals without meat might get them interested in cooking different styles and away from 'dinner's gotta be a sausage or burger'. Cheaper too.
A mate of mine, ex-RAF, has a wife who's a nutritionist.

Some years back, when his (now strapping, cage-fighter of a) son was a nipper, he found her cooking him a meal of chips and so on (he and his family are Muslim).

He asked why, when all good advice was about low fat, etc. Her response was that he was still growing and also active. A leaner diet was more appropriate for sedentary middle-aged people.

I'm starting to eat more vegetarian but that's because as I get older I'm getting more intolerant. Red meat is an increasingly rare treat because it doesn't sit well. Dairy isn't brilliant and neither is gluten.

The debate over the environmental footprint of different diets will rage on.

There's the 10 percent rule - that you typically get 10 percent of the energy from your food source that it has needed to grow. So, if you eat beef, you get 10 percent of the energy from that, and the cow only gets 10 percent from the grass... so in theory we only get 1 percent of the potential energy in/from what the cow eats.

An alternative, unfashionable view is that being wholly vegan has a huge environmental footprint because of sourcing, the less-energy-dense nature of the food and so on.

Veganism ignores that we're omnivores - we have canine teeth, for a start. It's also well-documented that (hu)mankind really only accelerated away by eating meat; getting that energy and nutrition in allowed us time to develop and do other things. Again, not a fashionable view now with the faddists.

Meanwhile...

 
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Meanwhile...


The Daily Mail, being economical with the truth as always.

If you still want to send packed lunches, could you please consider meat-free options to further support us in doing our bit to reduce carbon emissions as a school community?’
 
The Daily Mail, being economical with the truth as always.

If you still want to send packed lunches, could you please consider meat-free options to further support us in doing our bit to reduce carbon emissions as a school community?’

Christ, Lancashire county council are going to give the Scottish government ideas with this virtue signalling nonsense even if it is voluntary at present.
 

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