Follow up to "ASM tradesman or tarmac technician" POLL

ASM/Q Person: Tradesmen or Out of trade

  • Waste of a good tradesperson/Tiffy course

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Go for it Gunny, count those bullets an beans

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Must be arrse at their own trade and posted out for a reason!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
As a follow up to someones post on "ASM tradesman or tarmac technician"
(Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:44)

As the Corps now has 2 tradesmen in the full time role of Sergeant Major
(Defence School of Mech knowledge)

I thought I would open up the discussion, IMHO, the role of Sergeant Major (while we still have RS/RD in the system) should be filled with RS/RD type people, that is what we employed them for in the first place, they are not tradesmen, we dont waste time and money trying to make them tradesmen, the role of RD/RS is what they do best.

So why are we now employing people that we have spent a small fortune on training over his 18-20 ish years (Basic, phase2/3, education etc) in the role of sergeant major. Surely a job for an Artisan, failed tradesman or the like if we must employ non RS?

Gents, your thoughts.

BM.
 
#2
BadManners said:
As a follow up to someones post on "ASM tradesman or tarmac technician"
(Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:44)

As the Corps now has 2 tradesmen in the full time role of Sergeant Major
(Defence School of Mech knowledge)

I thought I would open up the discussion, IMHO, the role of Sergeant Major (while we still have RS/RD in the system) should be filled with RS/RD type people, that is what we employed them for in the first place, they are not tradesmen, we dont waste time and money trying to make them tradesmen, the role of RD/RS is what they do best.

So why are we now employing people that we have spent a small fortune on training over his 18-20 ish years (Basic, phase2/3, education etc) in the role of sergeant major. Surely a job for an Artisan, failed tradesman or the like if we must employ non RS?

Gents, your thoughts.

BM.
We had this discussion recently

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/p=424718.html#424718
 
#3
Why shouldn't a tradesman do it? I personally would welcome a job like that. A lot of people may question a Tiffy's motives with my last comment but after serving at a first line unit as a Tiff my chances of going back are very slim therefore most of my jobs now will be paperwork pushing in dlo/dpa or stuck in a pp&c somewhere. I must admit that I hate the paperwork and equipment support aspect of being a tiff (cue some of you choking in your coffee but i went tiffy to be a man manager) so a WSM/CSM/RSM would give me an opportunity to work with soldiers again.
 
#4
@emptyeye
No we didnt, we had a discussion on "What should we do about the RS?"

Get a sense of humour!

@Sparky
why did you waste a place on a course just to fill an artisan role mate, 18 months of hard work when you could have just done the CQMS course and slotted straight into the easy life :)
 
#5
Waste a place on course? Have you any idea what you are talking about? Im ambitious and I dont want to sit still in life, I was loaded on my Tiffy course as a 25 year old at my 8 year point, should I just have sacked any thought of promotion for 10 years in the hope that I might pick up as an artisan?

Im not after an easy life, far from it, I just can't be fcucked with dealing with civvies & policy and paperwork.

The way I see it, RS are going/gone. We now have to get on with the fact unless DEME(A) has a change of mind. Therefore Tiffy's/AQ's & ASM's will end up doing a regimental type jobs and as such add a bit of diversity to their CR's. Wouldn't it be good if a future Corps ASM has done 1st line/2nd line or DLO type environment & a regiment job so that he can give a balanced account to the boss on the state of the Corps?
 
#6
sparky8 said:
. Wouldn't it be good if a future Corps ASM has done 1st line/2nd line or DLO type environment & a regiment job so that he can give a balanced account to the boss on the state of the Corps?
But would he Sparky?
Lets be honest here, most in that position will be looking at either commission or pension and wouldn't wish to rock the boat.
 
#7
I would agree about the commission thing but that shouldn't stop them, lets face it Corps ASM is almost guaranteed commission therefore he's got nothing to lose if he rocks the boat.

Just let me at 'em........
 
#8
Hey Sparky, I've done the tarmac bashing, the Staff job and first line. Does that mean I am complete and can now be knocked off for my last 3 yrs?
 
#15
Are you sure about the IRC bit QManWpns? I know it was an aspiration from the Corps ASM 2 jobs ago as just about every other Regts/Corps RSM get it automatically. I hope the current incumbent does get it after doing 2 years in the job.
 
#16
I believe the Corps ASM is picked from the successful ASB candidates, and his commission is deferred for a year. Thus the Corps ASM, rather than being the senior soldier in the Corps and therefore the voice of reason in HQ DEME(A), is infact merely a junior Captain-in-waiting. It is not offered on a plate he has already earned it.
 
#17
Sorry for the confusing,I didnt articulate myself very well. However, I thought it was common knowledge, Maj B is spot on however due to the fact the Corps ASM has been selected at ASB, but carries out his tenure as the Corps ASM, so as not to lose seniority against his fellow peers who would be Captains he is awarded an IRC commission as a carrot, I heard it from DEME(A) myself.
 
#18
I also didn't articulate myself very well. I am fully aware of the selection system, I've been through it. My point is as follows: Previous Corps ASMs have done the job for a year and on completion been awarded a SSC(LE) not an IRC(LE). If the current incumbent does the job for 2 years, he will be disavantaged by being awarded a SSC(LE) as he will be a year behind his peers that he was selected alongside.

Other Regts/Corps (not all) get around this by awarding IRC(LE) to their respective Corps RSM as a carrot. This is perfectly legal as there is a reference in Commissioning Regs stating that in exceptional circumstances it is possible for a soldier to be awarded an IRC(LE) from the outset.

My question remains - will the current Corps ASM be awarded IRC(LE) on completion of his tour?
 
#19
Last time i read the covering letter giving the names of those selected for an SSC(LE) Commission the Corps ASM was on the list. Therefore he would be getting the same type of commission as the rest of the successful applicants.

As for the tiffy who does a WSM/CSM type post being a waste, i don't agree. I have been a tiffy at first line with an Armd Regt, Perm staff at BATUS Wksp, a Q man at an Engr Regt at trade as well as a tour as WSM before becoming the ASM of an Armd LAD.

I tend to think that tiffies who stay in the comform zone of being at trade are the waste. Tiffies are trainind to take the lead and make decisions that are sometimes difficult. Part of the job is being a leader and showing moral courage. Staying at trade is the easy way out. The Corps used to keep artisans at trade before it was realised that that was wasting a hidden talent and started giving them a wider choice of jobs. And have'nt the good ones taken it in there stride.

For a tiffy to say that he should stay in trade shows a lack of courage and knowledge in the wider Corps. I learnt a hell of a lot in my 18 months as a WSM. Things you don't get to know or do as a section head.

At least sparky is honest and freely admits he does'nt like all aspects of the job. Neither did i, but having the chance to do a wide variety of jobs certainly did'nt slow my promotion prospects. Not everyone who applies for a commission is an arrse kisser. I know some very good LE Officers who have told it like it is and continue to do so. It all goes back to the moral courage thing. You either have it or you don't.
 
#20
Sea horse Spanner to reiterate "so as not to lose seniority against his fellow peers who would be Captains he is awarded an IRC commission as a carrot, I heard it from DEME(A) myself."
 

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