FM Lord Bramall

#2
Hooray.

I wonder whether the despicable creature that made these vile allegations will be charged with wasting police time. This charade feels increasingly like the Met is dancing to the tune of one person who has made deeply dubious allegations and now it doesn't know how to end this properly.


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#3
Didn't this come off the back of disgusting allegations about Lord Britton

I hope someone gets charged with wasting police time Tom Watson MP for starters
 
#4
Nah, no doubt he'll get fifty quid out of the till and a nice Housing Association flat with his own personal social worker. No doubt she'll discover he's got issues around* something or other.

*Note here that use of the preposition 'around' with reference to anything other than geolocation is an infallible marker of leftist thinking.
 
#5
Good, in the current climate of Historic allegations being made, it makes a change for the Police to say No to further investigating spurious claims by people. How much of this is being driven by the compensation culture?
 
#6
Good, in the current climate of Historic allegations being made, it makes a change for the Police to say No to further investigating spurious claims by people. How much of this is being driven by the compensation culture?
I think it's more the case that, despite harassing a man in his 90s and going through all his papers which they'd seized and spending months - actually man-years - on an investigation, they signally failed to come up with sufficient evidence to take to the CPS. Must have been a huge disappointment to them. An obvious lunatic comes to them with some amazing story of incredibly important people doing disgusting things to him somewhere, somewhen, with no supporting evidence or corroboration, what could possibly go wrong?
 
#7
The trouble is, once an allegation has been made, no matter how bloody spurious and plain daft sometimes, it HAS to be investigated. With any luck the person making the allegations will get nailed for wasting police time.
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#8
The trouble is, once an allegation has been made, no matter how bloody spurious and plain daft sometimes, it HAS to be investigated. With any luck the person making the allegations will get nailed for wasting police time.
Not going to happen, the clue is in the quote:

"The force added: "Following a thorough investigation officers have concluded there is insufficient evidence to request the Crown Prosecution Service to consider charging the man with any offences."

Note they didn't say there was no truth in the allegation.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#9
So, he's not innocent - the police are just saying that they've found insufficient evidence.

Trouble is, he IS innocent. The words of one complete loony are being taken at face value, including that he and another General took part in orgies with Jimmy Saville at which a boy was murdered, and that he was involved i other murders. Now, as a) Gen Bramall was in Germany at the time, and b) there is not and never has been any evidence of a murder (body, missing lad, etc) it sounds like utter balls.

The police have acted in a vile manner, and whoever is in charge should be sacked instantly. He won't be of course.

Utter cnuts. The coppers, that is. No wonder public trust is leaching away.
 
#10
@OldSnowy, an absolutely valid point on the semantics of the language used, and the non-apology it therefore represents.

A problem is that such words can be used to the advantage of those with form. I'd put up Michael Jackson as an example. At the end of his last case, where it was also stated that there was insufficient evidence of his guilt, his supporters trumpeted his 'INNOCENCE!!!' far and wide.

The 'Establishment' is taking a kicking at the moment. Not doing anything, even posthumously, about that nonce Janner hasn't helped to counter claims of cover-ups.
 
#11
I met FM Bramall once. He came to visit our Depot while I was in Basic. I was chosen to be one of those wearing the various uniform rigs. I drew 'Shorts - Ridiculous, PT Vest -Red, Socks -Green, PT Daps - White'. He was late and as he walked past said 'Sorry to keep you waiting, you must be bloody freezing' (I was).
 
#12
Not going to happen, the clue is in the quote:

"The force added: "Following a thorough investigation officers have concluded there is insufficient evidence to request the Crown Prosecution Service to consider charging the man with any offences."

Note they didn't say there was no truth in the allegation.
It isn't the job of the police to determine the truth (sweeping statement, but bear with me). The police investigate the claim and gather the evidence. They are duty-bound to investigate allegations. CPS advise and charges may follow. It is up to the Court to determine truth. In this case the police have said that there is insufficient evidence to submit a file to CPS, hence there is insufficient (which my mean none at all) evidence of a crime being committed. Other than arguing about terminology and the time frame involved (which I agree could have been handled better), I'm not sure how else the police could have acted.
 
#13
He was my ex father-in-law's first CO and gave him his first tape in Borneo in the mid 60s. Ex father-in-law won't hear a bad word said against him.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Edit: at least he is still around to be informed of the result of the investigation.
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#14
It isn't the job of the police to determine the truth (sweeping statement, but bear with me). The police investigate the claim and gather the evidence. They are duty-bound to investigate allegations. CPS advise and charges may follow. It is up to the Court to determine truth. In this case the police have said that there is insufficient evidence to submit a file to CPS, hence there is insufficient (which my mean none at all) evidence of a crime being committed. Other than arguing about terminology and the time frame involved (which I agree could have been handled better), I'm not sure how else the police could have acted.
They could quite simply have informed him in a letter that, after conducting very a thorough investigation into allegations made against him that no such evidence was to be found. Quite simply if, as other posters have pointed out, should evidence have been found that he was not in the country at the time of the allegation(s) (which could be found through his army records no doubt) then that indicates the allegations are most likely groundless.

As it is the police have not cleared him at all, just left him hanging as they seem to do all too often. They have also allowed his accuser to escape any sanction for the stress caused, intrusion into the accused's personal life and colossal police time wasted.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
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#15
It isn't the job of the police to determine the truth (sweeping statement, but bear with me). The police investigate the claim and gather the evidence. They are duty-bound to investigate allegations. CPS advise and charges may follow. It is up to the Court to determine truth. In this case the police have said that there is insufficient evidence to submit a file to CPS, hence there is insufficient (which my mean none at all) evidence of a crime being committed. Other than arguing about terminology and the time frame involved (which I agree could have been handled better), I'm not sure how else the police could have acted.
Insufficient evidence sounds like they have found some but not enough. I.e. Plod/CPS have effectively said he is guilty but we can't prove it!
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#16
Don't forget that the accuser ticks many of the boxes so loved by many. As a reminder of the completeness of this bollocks, this from the time when Harvey Proctor went public against the cops, a few months ago:

"Last night Nick, who is said to have made a success of his life despite his years of abuse, has been upset by Proctor's statement. Journalist Mark Watts, editor of the Exaro website, spoke to him afterwards and said: 'Nick, as was entirely foreseeable, has been left distressed by Harvey Proctor's over-the-top theatrics. It was a shameful performance. 'Detectives on Operation Midland believed Nick was credible from first meeting with him. They still think him credible'.

Nick has told detectives he was regularly abused as a child by prominent men close to the Houses of Parliament.He also made the extraordinary claim that in addition to abusing victims, the gang had killed at least three of them.
He recalled seeing one small boy murdered in the presence of a former Tory Cabinet Minister, and another asphyxiated by a Conservative MP at a central London townhouse. He said last year: 'I watched while that happened. I am not sure how I got out of that'.The third murder is said to have occurred in broad daylight on a street in South-West London in 1979, when a member of the group deliberately ran over and killed a boy aged between 11 and 12.

He said he was one of between 15 and 20 children who would be picked up in cars and taken to hotels and apartments where they were physically and sexually abused.He claims to have visited Dolphin Square on at least ten occasions and written account of his ordeal and three days of videotaped evidence.

In that he is said to have passed them Harvey Proctor's name as well as Ted Heath and Leon Brittan among those alleged to have done 'monstrous things'.Mr Proctor also identified former armed forces head Lord Bramall, ex-MI6 chief Maurice Oldfield and Sir Michael Hanley, the former director general of MI5."




My 'bold'. So, no-one noticed that three young lads were murdered, one in broad daylight on a street in London but he's a credible witness? No-one reported 3 x missing/dead that even vaguely fit with this claim? He states that CDS, C, the PM (Heath) and the head of MI5 were all murdering paedos?

Well, all I can say is that their DV (PV in those days) interviews must have been interesting, and that the CP team guarding the PM were obviously all murdering nonces as well, as was the entire household staff of CDS - and that would have been quite a few in those days. Bullshit.

This one nutcase has ruined countless lives, and wasted many £M in public money - our tax money - as police played up to him.

Finally, do some searching about Exaro, the website that's led on this - they are as credible as the story they print - i.e. not at all.
 
#18
So, he's not innocent - the police are just saying that they've found insufficient evidence.

Trouble is, he IS innocent. The words of one complete loony are being taken at face value, including that he and another General took part in orgies with Jimmy Saville at which a boy was murdered, and that he was involved i other murders. Now, as a) Gen Bramall was in Germany at the time, and b) there is not and never has been any evidence of a murder (body, missing lad, etc) it sounds like utter balls.

The police have acted in a vile manner, and whoever is in charge should be sacked instantly. He won't be of course.

Utter *****. The coppers, that is. No wonder public trust is leaching away.
No, the words of one complete loony are not being taken at face value. If they were, charges would follow wouldn't they?

Complaint received, investigation carried out, insufficient evidence, no charges. But you're still not happy because?

Because they investigated the General? What was the alternative, not investigate him because he's a General?

Some people are never happy.
 
#19
Insufficient evidence sounds like they have found some but not enough. I.e. Plod/CPS have effectively said he is guilty but we can't prove it!
No they haven't, they've said insufficient evidence to proceed. Insufficient could mean none.......
 
#20
Insufficient evidence is a catch all term and I wouldn't read too much in to it. Unless you can outright find evidence to the contrary which they probably can't, it'll all be "insufficient evidence". I guess it's supposed to avoid making a judgement since the police role is supposed to be the gathering of evidence.

-Edit-
Outright evidence to prove it was a false allegation
 
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