Flightradar 24

Something occuring with LS644 from Larnaca to Leeds. It's just landed at the time of me writing this but it's done a fair few circuits.

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This screwed up the approach for another Jet2 flight from Paphos.

View attachment 348108

Jet2 aren't having much luck at the minute. Thankfully for me, it didn't start until I got back from Crete with them!
SPECULATION ALERT

Given the time of day, early hours, it could be that there was Work In Progress on the runway which necessitated a hold? Looking at the tracks they seem orientated around the airfield itself which fits as Leeds has a Non Directional Beacon (NDB) hold based on the LBA beacon which is on the airfield. It also looks like the radar might have been out as the tear drop shaped turns away from the actual race track shaped hold look very much like Procedural Turns.

In short, it’s all done the old fashioned way by flying for a set time or distance on a set track away from the beacon “Beacon Outbound”, then doing a set rate turn (Rate One Turn, it takes 2 minutes to fly a full 360 degrees) Which brings you onto the final approach for either an Instrument Landing System (ILS) or NDB Approach. The former gives you both left/ right and up/ down guidance, the latter just gives you left/ right and you have to work out the uppy downy bit yourself based on ground speed to give you the required rate of descent in feet per minute which translates to a 3 degree slope that reaches ground level at the end of the runway. It’s a bastard.

With radar they give you directions towards the final approach and you take it from there. This gives lots more room so you can shift more aircraft in a given time. Doing it all Procedurally is much slower as you can have lots of aircraft in the hold separated 1000’ vertically and drop every one down a 1000’ once the guy below has cleared the next one down. The kicker is you can only let the next guy go Outbound into the Procedure once the guy before him has finished the teardrop Procedure Turn and established Inbound on final approach. As the Outbound takes 2-3 minutes and the turn takes 1 minute or so it means typically you get one in every 4-5 minutes as opposed to every 2 minutes or so using radar. This could be the reason the second guy in the screenshot got screwed up.

As I say, all speculation on my part but the above fits the pictures.
 
Re the above, here’s the NDB Procedure for the northwesterly runway at Leeds:

748A9D72-169E-426D-B67B-B90E8D68D12D.png

The pattern on the FR screenshot fits. The hold is the light type racetrack based on the LBA, the Procedure is the heavy type teardrop to the south and the Final Approach the heavy type northwesterly line annotated 326 (the Final Approach Course). The heavy type dotted blue line to the northwest, looping to the right is the Missed Approach that you’d fly when you **** it all up (odds on with me doing an NDB, we do them so rarely and they are VERY hard work!)

You can see the Outbound is flown to 9 miles which would take 3 minutes.
 
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There’s a good YouTube account called ‘Captain Joe’ ex Air Berlin, now CargoLux on 74s who explains everything aviation from how to adjust the pilots seat to the eyeline indicator to in depth stuff like @Toastie just described above.

 
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SPECULATION ALERT

Given the time of day, early hours, it could be that there was Work In Progress on the runway which necessitated a hold? Looking at the tracks they seem orientated around the airfield itself which fits as Leeds has a Non Directional Beacon (NDB) hold based on the LBA beacon which is on the airfield. It also looks like the radar might have been out as the tear drop shaped turns away from the actual race track shaped hold look very much like Procedural Turns.

In short, it’s all done the old fashioned way by flying for a set time or distance on a set track away from the beacon “Beacon Outbound”, then doing a set rate turn (Rate One Turn, it takes 2 minutes to fly a full 360 degrees) Which brings you onto the final approach for either an Instrument Landing System (ILS) or NDB Approach. The former gives you both left/ right and up/ down guidance, the latter just gives you left/ right and you have to work out the uppy downy bit yourself based on ground speed to give you the required rate of descent in feet per minute which translates to a 3 degree slope that reaches ground level at the end of the runway. It’s a bastard.

With radar they give you directions towards the final approach and you take it from there. This gives lots more room so you can shift more aircraft in a given time. Doing it all Procedurally is much slower as you can have lots of aircraft in the hold separated 1000’ vertically and drop every one down a 1000’ once the guy below has cleared the next one down. The kicker is you can only let the next guy go Outbound into the Procedure once the guy before him has finished the teardrop Procedure Turn and established Inbound on final approach. As the Outbound takes 2-3 minutes and the turn takes 1 minute or so it means typically you get one in every 4-5 minutes as opposed to every 2 minutes or so using radar. This could be the reason the second guy in the screenshot got screwed up.

As I say, all speculation on my part but the above fits the pictures.
That fits. Landing at Manchester the other week at 0130, we had a bit of a hold in the air and then on landing, discovered that part of the runway was being resurfaced along with the taxiways which resulted in our plane doing a 180° on the runway and heading back down it before a A330 came in to land.
 
That fits. Landing at Manchester the other week at 0130, we had a bit of a hold in the air and then on landing, discovered that part of the runway was being resurfaced along with the taxiways which resulted in our plane doing a 180° on the runway and heading back down it before a A330 came in to land.
Standard MAN. The only airport operating from a building site on a permanent basis! Boy would I love to have the concrete contract for that place,they’re forever digging it up and relaying it.

The manoeuvre you describe, “backtracking” is normal and safe but at night oncoming landing lights always look mighty close so plucking a bit of lambs wool off the seat with your hoop is also pretty normal!
 
It's a tad awkward getting night flying in during daylight ;)
Yeah but what’s the PA38 Traumahawk doing up so late? That flying death trap is bad enough when you can see where you’re going....
 
Warlord41 being a Typhoon, probably more with him/her as I would expect only the leader to squawk.
Wonder what their endurance is like? Years ago as a Space Cadet I got a cabbie in a 2 seat Lightning as Best Cadet on Annual Camp (cue much derision but....) well worth it as up to lots and lots of feet, through sound barrier apparently (I didn’t notice as brakes off was my last rational thought) and then back to Binbrook on fumes. About 20 minutes all in iirc!

I think their mission profile was blast off, run like the clappers to meet Red Wave 1, launch a couple of Red Top missiles and turn tail in the vain hope there was somewhere to go back to that wasn’t glowing too much. Endurance didn’t come into it although they did have fixed refuelling probes so I guess it figured in The Plan somewhere?
 
Standard MAN. The only airport operating from a building site on a permanent basis! Boy would I love to have the concrete contract for that place,they’re forever digging it up and relaying it.

The manoeuvre you describe, “backtracking” is normal and safe but at night oncoming landing lights always look mighty close so plucking a bit of lambs wool off the seat with your hoop is also pretty normal!
Yeah, a lot of airports I've been to have had to have the aircraft backtrack. I just didn't expect it at MAN. :D

You're right about the landing lights! As we turned I caught a glimpse of it coming in. ATC must have told our pilot to expedite as he sped up halfway down the runway. One girl behind me was convinced we were about to take off again. Silly bint.
 
Wonder what their endurance is like? Years ago as a Space Cadet I got a cabbie in a 2 seat Lightning as Best Cadet on Annual Camp (cue much derision but....) well worth it as up to lots and lots of feet, through sound barrier apparently (I didn’t notice as brakes off was my last rational thought) and then back to Binbrook on fumes. About 20 minutes all in iirc!

I think their mission profile was blast off, run like the clappers to meet Red Wave 1, launch a couple of Red Top missiles and turn tail in the vain hope there was somewhere to go back to that wasn’t glowing too much. Endurance didn’t come into it although they did have fixed refuelling probes so I guess it figured in The Plan somewhere?
Having been lucky enough to fly in both a Lightning and Typhoon, their kinematic performance is similar. However, the latter's endurance is considerably better; it sips gas at high level and can supercruise with stores. Only the F-22 surpasses it.

Regards,
MM
 
Yeah but what’s the PA38 Traumahawk doing up so late? That flying death trap is bad enough when you can see where you’re going....
Beats me, same reason I wonder?
 
They're up most nights. Apparently they do surveys from the air - which must be bloody difficult seeing as it's pitch black.
Unless they're doing radar terrain scanning or IR photography ;)
 
Unless they're doing radar terrain scanning or IR photography ;)
There's always some sort of smartarse, isn't there?
:D

Seriously, I remember reading up on the company a while ago as for almost a week, the same plane kept returning after sundown and kept doing circuits. I tried to find out in more detail what they did (I think they were called something different back then too) but no information was out there.
 
There's always some sort of smartarse, isn't there?
:D

Seriously, I remember reading up on the company a while ago as for almost a week, the same plane kept returning after sundown and kept doing circuits. I tried to find out in more detail what they did (I think they were called something different back then too) but no information was out there.
Maybe this explains it. I just put the aircraft registration(G-LEAF)in a google search and hey presto this was one of the results.
High Flyers - Tales from the Aerial Survey Team - Creating a better place
 

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