Flightradar 24 and Marine spotting odds and sods.

@Toastie , extra sim sessions all round?
As per the article, we’ve been getting plenty, certainly well in excess of the minimum legal. IMHO, they’ve handled the recency issues very well and the AAIB’s passing comment that a casual factor may be lack of recency is being overplayed by the usual ill informed media.
 

BlipDriver

War Hero
The map certainly seems a lot emptier:
1638631727625.png

Some domestic airways look like they're still there, but all the routes to the OEPs have gone.
Has worked in Irish/Shannon airspace for a few years so not surprising.
 

BlipDriver

War Hero
Looks like down & safe. If it's a missed pin wonder how many rounds in the bar that's worth?:D
Edit: assuming that it wasn't @Toastie, do you think that he's currently packing for an unexpected trip to Puerto Vallarta?
 
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Not me. Just looked it up. Good mate is in Command. 3 crew as it’s mega long haul so 3 sets of eyes, brains and input will have helped in the discussion / decision process. No rush to get on the ground so why complicate things with an Overweight Landing and hot brakes etc? Will have needed to dump c 26T to get from take off weight less a bit used down to max landing weight.

Speed profile is interesting. Kept speed at something equating to take off flap until well out so I’m guessing he just trapped the speed and left everything as it was and concentrated on flying the aircraft clear of terrain and everyone else until they had a better idea of what they were dealing with. Lots of liaising with ATC. Excellent call IMHO.

Gear limit speed is 270kts. They kept it at 250 max.

Quite possibly he put the rest down after running the checklist as that’d up the fuel burn and give confidence he’s got 3 Greens well before commencing the approach.

They‘d have known within about 10 seconds of lift off that they had a problem, quick analysis, no big drama, slow it all down, fly the aircraft, find somewhere sensible to run checklists etc. have a big chat, make some decisions, job jobbed.

Went up to 10,000’, probably there before they made the first decision, we ain’t going to PVR. 4,000’ is minimum dumping altitude but it’s cold today so evaporation might take longer and there’s the Morecombe Bay gas field below, lots of flares! I’d go up a bit too! Wouldn’t want to go above that, terrain permitting, as you don’t know what else might be lurking like a pressurisation fault. Did a tire blow and cause damage to gear actuators? Did it punch a hole in the aircraft too?

Looks very well handled based on the very limited info I’ve got.* Wouldn’t expect anything else of a professional and certainly of your man.

*no more than you other than looked to the plan to get fuel / weight figures and crew name. It amazes me how quickly this stuff gets into the public domain. Some people really need to think before releasing info. I’m guessing an ATC Assistant or maybe Ground Handling.

I bet the Despatch team in the latter had a bit of a shitty on as a pin left in is an obvious first assumption. IMHO that’s not as likely as you’d assume, there are very strict procedures for check and double check following push back and again, IMHO, the teams at MAN are shit hot. Mistakes happen though and I really hate to think that might be it because if so, my mate has missed a trick as have his two colleagues.
 

Ritch

LE
Not me. Just looked it up. Good mate is in Command. 3 crew as it’s mega long haul so 3 sets of eyes, brains and input will have helped in the discussion / decision process. No rush to get on the ground so why complicate things with an Overweight Landing and hot brakes etc? Will have needed to dump c 26T to get from take off weight less a bit used down to max landing weight.

Speed profile is interesting. Kept speed at something equating to take off flap until well out so I’m guessing he just trapped the speed and left everything as it was and concentrated on flying the aircraft clear of terrain and everyone else until they had a better idea of what they were dealing with. Lots of liaising with ATC. Excellent call IMHO.

Gear limit speed is 270kts. They kept it at 250 max.

Quite possibly he put the rest down after running the checklist as that’d up the fuel burn and give confidence he’s got 3 Greens well before commencing the approach.

They‘d have known within about 10 seconds of lift off that they had a problem, quick analysis, no big drama, slow it all down, fly the aircraft, find somewhere sensible to run checklists etc. have a big chat, make some decisions, job jobbed.

Went up to 10,000’, probably there before they made the first decision, we ain’t going to PVR. 4,000’ is minimum dumping altitude but it’s cold today so evaporation might take longer and there’s the Morecombe Bay gas field below, lots of flares! I’d go up a bit too! Wouldn’t want to go above that, terrain permitting, as you don’t know what else might be lurking like a pressurisation fault. Did a tire blow and cause damage to gear actuators? Did it punch a hole in the aircraft too?

Looks very well handled based on the very limited info I’ve got.* Wouldn’t expect anything else of a professional and certainly of your man.

*no more than you other than looked to the plan to get fuel / weight figures and crew name. It amazes me how quickly this stuff gets into the public domain. Some people really need to think before releasing info. I’m guessing an ATC Assistant or maybe Ground Handling.

I bet the Despatch team in the latter had a bit of a shitty on as a pin left in is an obvious first assumption. IMHO that’s not as likely as you’d assume, there are very strict procedures for check and double check following push back and again, IMHO, the teams at MAN are shit hot. Mistakes happen though and I really hate to think that might be it because if so, my mate has missed a trick as have his two colleagues.

Yes my first thought was a flaps problem as it was at 9,000ft and 180knots when I saw it.

Anyway, glad she's down safe!
 

exbluejob

LE
Book Reviewer
Not me. Just looked it up. Good mate is in Command. 3 crew as it’s mega long haul so 3 sets of eyes, brains and input will have helped in the discussion / decision process. No rush to get on the ground so why complicate things with an Overweight Landing and hot brakes etc? Will have needed to dump c 26T to get from take off weight less a bit used down to max landing weight.

Speed profile is interesting. Kept speed at something equating to take off flap until well out so I’m guessing he just trapped the speed and left everything as it was and concentrated on flying the aircraft clear of terrain and everyone else until they had a better idea of what they were dealing with. Lots of liaising with ATC. Excellent call IMHO.

Gear limit speed is 270kts. They kept it at 250 max.

Quite possibly he put the rest down after running the checklist as that’d up the fuel burn and give confidence he’s got 3 Greens well before commencing the approach.

They‘d have known within about 10 seconds of lift off that they had a problem, quick analysis, no big drama, slow it all down, fly the aircraft, find somewhere sensible to run checklists etc. have a big chat, make some decisions, job jobbed.

Went up to 10,000’, probably there before they made the first decision, we ain’t going to PVR. 4,000’ is minimum dumping altitude but it’s cold today so evaporation might take longer and there’s the Morecombe Bay gas field below, lots of flares! I’d go up a bit too! Wouldn’t want to go above that, terrain permitting, as you don’t know what else might be lurking like a pressurisation fault. Did a tire blow and cause damage to gear actuators? Did it punch a hole in the aircraft too?

Looks very well handled based on the very limited info I’ve got.* Wouldn’t expect anything else of a professional and certainly of your man.

*no more than you other than looked to the plan to get fuel / weight figures and crew name. It amazes me how quickly this stuff gets into the public domain. Some people really need to think before releasing info. I’m guessing an ATC Assistant or maybe Ground Handling.

I bet the Despatch team in the latter had a bit of a shitty on as a pin left in is an obvious first assumption. IMHO that’s not as likely as you’d assume, there are very strict procedures for check and double check following push back and again, IMHO, the teams at MAN are shit hot. Mistakes happen though and I really hate to think that might be it because if so, my mate has missed a trick as have his two colleagues.
I was surprised that they put a 7700 on and didn't leave them on a discrete squawk. 7700 triggers alarms EVERYWHERE and dumping fuel takes a loooong time. The problem with the alarm going for a long time is that it can mask another emergency going on.
 

BlipDriver

War Hero
Gear limit speed is 270kts. They kept it at 250 max.
Genuine question: is it max 250kts below FL100 up there (Manchester TMA) as well?
*no more than you other than looked to the plan to get fuel / weight figures and crew name. It amazes me how quickly this stuff gets into the public domain. Some people really need to think before releasing info. I’m guessing an ATC Assistant or maybe Ground Handling.
Having looked at some of his other tweets I'd guess against the ATSA simply due to his repeated use of IATA rather than ICAO for locations.
 
Genuine question: is it max 250kts below FL100 up there (Manchester TMA) as well?

Yes, unless released from Speed Control (usually we are). Need to be a bit careful though going out that way at high weights as you can drop out below CAS which we try and avoid.
 

Ritch

LE
I flew into Manchester on a Ryanair flight from Alicante at 23:50 on that evening, from about 20 mins out of Manchester it was the worst flight I have been on for a very long time.:oops:

Found you!

Screenshot_20211208-184248_Flightradar24.jpg
 
Not me. Just looked it up. Good mate is in Command. 3 crew as it’s mega long haul so 3 sets of eyes, brains and input will have helped in the discussion / decision process. No rush to get on the ground so why complicate things with an Overweight Landing and hot brakes etc? Will have needed to dump c 26T to get from take off weight less a bit used down to max landing weight.

Speed profile is interesting. Kept speed at something equating to take off flap until well out so I’m guessing he just trapped the speed and left everything as it was and concentrated on flying the aircraft clear of terrain and everyone else until they had a better idea of what they were dealing with. Lots of liaising with ATC. Excellent call IMHO.

Gear limit speed is 270kts. They kept it at 250 max.

Quite possibly he put the rest down after running the checklist as that’d up the fuel burn and give confidence he’s got 3 Greens well before commencing the approach.

They‘d have known within about 10 seconds of lift off that they had a problem, quick analysis, no big drama, slow it all down, fly the aircraft, find somewhere sensible to run checklists etc. have a big chat, make some decisions, job jobbed.

Went up to 10,000’, probably there before they made the first decision, we ain’t going to PVR. 4,000’ is minimum dumping altitude but it’s cold today so evaporation might take longer and there’s the Morecombe Bay gas field below, lots of flares! I’d go up a bit too! Wouldn’t want to go above that, terrain permitting, as you don’t know what else might be lurking like a pressurisation fault. Did a tire blow and cause damage to gear actuators? Did it punch a hole in the aircraft too?

Looks very well handled based on the very limited info I’ve got.* Wouldn’t expect anything else of a professional and certainly of your man.

*no more than you other than looked to the plan to get fuel / weight figures and crew name. It amazes me how quickly this stuff gets into the public domain. Some people really need to think before releasing info. I’m guessing an ATC Assistant or maybe Ground Handling.

I bet the Despatch team in the latter had a bit of a shitty on as a pin left in is an obvious first assumption. IMHO that’s not as likely as you’d assume, there are very strict procedures for check and double check following push back and again, IMHO, the teams at MAN are shit hot. Mistakes happen though and I really hate to think that might be it because if so, my mate has missed a trick as have his two colleagues.
Are aircraft fitted with CCTV to cover the exterior in order to observe such problems and other parts of the aircraft not observable from the windows? Or do you have to rely on the sensors for informatio.
 
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