Flash to bang...

#1
A question for the floor...

I am 90% confident that i am about to get a brown letter through the letterbox say i have be mobilised for Herrick.
I envisage the letter arriving early June. My question is... is it worth pre warning my boss?? Has anyone had any bad experiences of doing this??
Yours... a rather confused person?! :oops:
 
#2
Wait till you have said letter, plenty of ammo with it in hand. Without it he might get funny.
 
#3
You are covered by the reserve forces act and therefore job security should be sorted. I pre-warned my boss for Op Telic and although he took the piss about there would be no chance i would be called up, come the time he accepted it and helped me put in place a system that wouldn't dump my colleagues in the sheizer whilst i was away.

It depends on the individual. If your boss is a great person and not a David Brent, then he will probably appreciate you telling him so that you both can start formulating a plan. It will also give him a chance to chat with Sabre with any questions he might have in preparation to it.

If you don't get the brown envelope this time around, it will only be a matter of time before you do and then at least you and your boss have done the ground work to allow things to run smoothly when it does happen.

Good luck with whatever the outcome is and all the best for a safe tour if you do end up going.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Under NO circumstances tell ur boss before hand. I remember a case that a guy told his boss that he was gonna be mobilised, and was fired four days before he go the letter. As he was fired before mobilisation legally he could not do a thing. What reg btw? my unit is sending a platoon out there on herrick 5..

edited for being stupid...
 
#5
You need to decide between the two opinions above!! It all rather depends on your personal circumstances.

Do you work for a large or small company, will they cope fine with your abscence or is it going to cause headaches?
Does your boss know you are in the TA?
Is he a supportive employer or is he likely to see this as an excuse to get rid before the problem presents itself.

One thing I would say is that my experience seems to be that the vast majority of employers are actually supportive and appreciate the direct approach.

The example given by chris above is really quite rare and without going off topic it would be interesting to know exactly what the guy was sacked for? 'possibly being mobilised' does not strike me as grounds for termination of employment and I'm sure SaBRE would be very interested to hear about this case, if it really was as simple as chris makes out.

Ultimately, I assume you have a premonition because you have explicitly volunteered for the OP? Have you rang the mobilisation hotline at APC? they will be able to tell you if your name is on the list and if so when you will be called out.

In my case I did know explicitly that I was being mobilised and confirmed it with the hotline 2 weeks before the papers arrived, I then told my boss and got a lot of support. I only actually got three weeks flash to bang from doormat to Chilwell and the work gave me the last week off work so I could sort my life out. The pay off was that I put in 14 hour days for the first two weeks after the papers arrived handing over my workload to colleagues.

In the two weeks where I knew but papers hadn't arived I was given plenty of time away from my desk to do all the admin required to get the troop ready to go, there was a lot of unicom action required and a lot of the other guys had problems they needed help with before I could start worrying about myself!

All in all it was a good call for me to tell my boss but I already knew I would be supported. Had I not been sure of the reaction I would have kept quiet.

Humph

{edited to add...}

Hescoheed said:
You are covered by the reserve forces act
Just to clarify... You are only covered by RFA96 once the notice of call out has been served, up until that point you have no legal protection whatsoever.
 
#6
Hescoheed said:
You are covered by the reserve forces act and therefore job security should be sorted.
Mmm, one for discussion maybe.

My understanding (which may well be wrong) is that it protects you from being fired in your current role while you are on Ops. But doesn't stop them changing your role whilst you are away, and firing you from the new role (as they didn't fire you from the old role, theres no come back).

There's no such thing as 100% protection.

TB
 
#7
I wouldn't count on the RFA protecting your job, the max they can fine a firm is a grand! I was stiffed for a payrise (just over a quid an hour) while I was away on Telic 3 and had to wait six months to get it after my return. After looking into it, there was nothing I could do about it. If you do get your envelope, make sure the fatherless don't stitch you up!
 
#8
Agreed, I think I was being a bit too generalised. Sorry about that.

However, there are good provisions made for people being mobilised and I get the impression that many people don't use the advice from SaBRE as much as they could. I might be proved wrong, but I haven't heard anything bad about the support from SaBRE and my boss was quite impressed by the way they handled his queries whilst I was away.

I think HDT hit it quite nicely on the head:

"Do you work for a large or small company, will they cope fine with your abscence or is it going to cause headaches?
Does your boss know you are in the TA?
Is he a supportive employer or is he likely to see this as an excuse to get rid before the problem presents itself."
 
#9
Depends on your employer, I'd been working for mine for 9 years. As soon as I heard I was being mobilised I let them know, gave them links to the SABRE site. It didn't effect my job at all but my employer did lodge a sucessful deferrall.

p.s. I'm not sure I would have done this if I hadn't worked with them for so long.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Humphrey_De_Tiluel said:
The example given by chris above is really quite rare and without going off topic it would be interesting to know exactly what the guy was sacked for? 'possibly being mobilised' does not strike me as grounds for termination of employment and I'm sure SaBRE would be very interested to hear about this case, if it really was as simple as chris makes out.
To be honest i cant remember much detail about it, but i think it was one of those small companies who we prob have all worked for at one time or another. I think they fired him on some pretense of unsatisfactry work or something.
 
#12
can someone give me the number of this mobilisation hotline, i'd never heard of it.

ive put my name foward, knowing when im supposed to go exactly would be a big help.
 
#14
Cavalier said:
So 'intelligent mobilisation' doesn't apply for the whole TA then??
I'd second this question - if the current guidance from Land is followed then you should not be considered for mobilisation unless your civvy boss has been asked and has indicated that you are happy to go. Clearly this has not happened in your case, I'd be interested to know whether it's because the "aspiration" has been abandoned because we're so very short of available soldiers, or because your unit has ignored current instructions.

As to employer protection, read the thread below for a good discussion of RFA 96:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=37807/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

A good summary of what RFA 96 protection actually means may be found at:
http://www.personneltoday.com/Articles/2004/05/18/23705/Employing+Armed+Forces+reservists.htm

The level of protection provided is nowhere near as comprehensive as many believe, and bluntly if your boss wants to ditch you he can. Make very sure he's onside, and if he's not think very hard about volunteering for a tour. Be honest with yourself, are you prepared to lose your job over a tour, can you afford to ?
 
#15
chrisg46 said:
I remember a case that a guy told his boss that he was gonna be mobilised, and was fired four days before he go the letter. As he was fired before mobilisation legally he could not do a thing.
Rubbish! Under the Safeguard of Employment Act 1985 it is illegal to terminate someone's employment because they have a LIABILITY to be mobilised. Only last week there was a case where an employer was successfully prosecuted by the Crown Prosecuation Service after a guy in the TA was sacked and complained to the police about it.
 
#16
crossed_axes said:
chrisg46 said:
I remember a case that a guy told his boss that he was gonna be mobilised, and was fired four days before he go the letter. As he was fired before mobilisation legally he could not do a thing.
Rubbish! Under the Safeguard of Employment Act 1985 it is illegal to terminate someone's employment because they have a LIABILITY to be mobilised. Only last week there was a case where an employer was successfully prosecuted by the Crown Prosecuation Service after a guy in the TA was sacked and complained to the police about it.
Maybe, maybe not. If the employer stated openly that the sacking was a direct result of a liability to mobilise then he can be prosecuted for same. However, I believe the maximum penalty for this is £1500, which could be less than statutory redundancy for employees with a few years service. So it could be a cheap way to bin someone.

However, given that said employer probably knows the law he is unlikely to make statements that confirm he has acted unlawfully. It is far more likely that the dismissal will be "justified" for other reasons that make no mention whatsoever of mobilisation liability. The onus is then on the employee to prove that what has happened is unfair and fight his own case at an industrial tribunal just like any other disputed termination of civilian employment. The system will offer no help whatsoever in cases such as these as on the face of it it has nothing to do with membership of the reserve forces.

Indeed, if once the reservist has returned from his tour he finds a similar job during his POTL there may well be little point taking the matter further, as the tribunal will only award compensation for loss of earnings for the time the employee has been out of work. It would be preferable for the case to be pursued to send a clear message to other employers, but the individual is unlikely to do this as they see no real benefit and a great deal of hassle ahead. The system will do nothing as such matters are deemed to be between employer and employee, hance no action taken.
 
#18
MCM Div Mobilised service

Civilian Dial Code: 0141 224 followed by Ext


A-D 94561 8762
E-G 94561 8749
H-K 94561 2120
L-N 94561 8791
O-R 94561 8887
S-V 94561 8809
W-Z 94561 8748
 
#20
OOTS - Good points, we're back on Intelligent Mobilisation again!

YJ, OOTS is absolutely spot on regarding the unlawful firing of an employee based on their' possible mobilisation.

From personal experience TopBadgers post is very accurate of the situation that I found myself in post Telic.

For many organisations, I don't think it is, so much a case of wanting to get shot of the TA soldier (sorry, no pun intended), more so, that the soldier's role has been covered in such a way that the move back into the former role will again negatively impact the business. On mobilisation for Telic, I was involved day to day on about 20 separate projects. Realistically, it took the best part of four weeks for the business to pass on my responsibilities to others in the organisation (due to workload and skills).

On returning, the business realised that they had been exposed quite badly to the "risk" of my mobilisation (having told them for the last five years, that about 28 days was the expected period of notification, the three days that I and therefore they actually got, probably contributed the biggest percentage of the problem). At the point where two of my colleague's who were covering for me mobilised at 10 days notice for Telic 2, I think they changed their views on employing anyone with a military involvement \ commitment \ history.

So post Telic and three years later. Two, out of the three of us, work elsewhere, having effectively been career ceilinged as a result of Telic, and the one remaining with them "considered" his TA career, during his annual appraisal - and like the other two of us, left the military to protect / rebuild our civilian careers on our ROD's.
 

Similar threads

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top