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Five-year-olds assert their human right to be vi

#1
:roll: :roll: :roll:

The question is why are they doing this? Is it because their parents dont instill personal discipline in them or is that the parents are afraid to reprimand their kids for fear of the PC social services brigade?

Children as young as five are asserting their "human right" to do as they please as unruly and violent behaviour spreads to primary schools, the second-biggest teachers' union said yesterday.

Many schools do not have firm policies to deal with indiscipline and fail to support teachers who have to endure a daily diet of insults as they struggle to keep control, according to the National Association of Schoolmasters Union of Women Teachers.


The union says it has noticed a surge in complaints over the past year which it attributes partly to the closure of special schools and the inclusion of children with behavioural problems in mainstream classes. Lack of respect for older people and authority means pupils are less easy to shame into contrition, say teachers.

The issue dominated the first day of debate at the union's annual conference in Brighton, where teachers stressed that a declining standard of behaviour was not confined to deprived parts of the inner cities.

Ralph Robins, the union's primary liaison officer in Cornwall, said teachers at 18 of the 20 primary schools he visited last term had problems with discipline. "Cornwall is a delightful area but pupils still get rowdy and many of the staff tell me there is a surge towards questioning the authority of the class teacher," he said.

Complaints about behaviour from primary school teachers were growing, said Mike Wilson, from Newark and Sherwood.

"Children as young as five and six are violent and disruptive. There are children who bite, scream and throw furniture and others who continually question staff, quoting their perceived human rights," he said.

"Why should I?" they say, and "It's not fair." Primary schools tended to be sympathetic to the children and did not want to exclude them because they were little. "When they misbehave in this way then I say they are no longer little," he said.

Diet contributed to poor behaviour, said Joy Higgins, from Essex. She had recently returned to classroom teaching and noticed a deterioration in behaviour. "I see my form for registration three times a day. In the morning they are fine and human and you can hold a conversation with them.

"After break they are a bit rowdy and after lunch they are bouncing off the walls."

Miss Higgins said she called it the "sugar effect". One pupil had been behaving so strangely that she asked if he was on drugs. He said he had just eaten three doughnuts. Research had shown that cutting out sugary cakes and drinks reduced asthma attacks and improved concentration and behaviour.

"We need to ban all recognised junk food being sold in vending machines and persuade parents not to put it in lunch boxes," she said.

David Ward, from Sheffield, said poor behaviour was a common reason for teachers leaving the profession.

Applying continual, low-level discipline ground them down and prevented them from teaching. More serious incidents were also more common and he had received report recently of a teacher being stabbed in the arm with a compass and another hit on the head by a board rubber. The fire alarm had been activated by pupils 40 times in one day at one secondary school.

In one school, between 20 and 40 pupils were allowed to wander the corridors during class while at another pupils regularly spat on staff and each other from three floors up said Mr Ward.

In Merseyside a case worker said he had dealt with three violent incidents in just over a week in one school. "He told me that he had been a representative for the union for 30 years and had seen nothing like it," said John Mayes, a national executive member.

"Often pupils start to become aggressive and disruptive in year seven, when they first move from primary schools where they have had one teacher for most of the day. They find they are chopping and changing and some cannot cope with the sheer numbers of children around them," he said.

Many of the delegates blamed the Government's policy of inclusion, which meant pupils with severe behavioural problems being moved into mainstream classes as special schools closed. Just one child with behavioural problems could disrupt the education of the rest of the class, said Peter Tippets, from Hampshire.

"They see that if a disturbed pupil convincingly defies the authority of the teacher there is nothing that the teacher can do about it and the defiance spreads," he said.

The union voted unanimously to call for a reversal of the policy of including violent and disruptive pupils in mainstream schools. It also urged automatic and permanent exclusion for violent and disruptive pupils.
Children assert human rights at primary school?
 
#2
Trust me, after 3 years of working in schools (I just have to visit them now, thank God) after I'd left I was gobsmaked. When I left shool there were top, middle and bottom sets. With the new educational policies they are all mixed up, the bright kids cannot fly because they are having to be taught at the same pace as the dumb or disruptive kids. Special needs children are now included in all classes, these include the deaf, blind and children with severe physical disabilities. These children also detract from the speed subjects can be taught at. It's no wonder so many parents want the privately educate their kids these days.
 
#3
diet definitly has a part to play though when thekids I was working with had there pack lunch there all went manic
 
#4
What we need is a high profile chef to bring this issue to the attention of the Nation.
 
#5
What we need is a high profile chef to bring this issue to the attention of the Nation.
And who can also serve the dual purpose of being duty smoke-generator.

Where can one find such a person BB?

clue: not a million miles from Downing St. today.
 
#6
Bravo_Bravo said:
What we need is a high profile chef to bring this issue to the attention of the Nation.
there is oen now, jamie oliver cooking in schools for a documentry about school dinners
 
#8
brighton hippy said:
diet definitly has a part to play though when thekids I was working with had there pack lunch there all went manic
'Kids you were working with'??? I wonder what you have just eaten.
 
#9
I am fed up to the back teeth, not with school meals I hasten to add but with "human rights". Its about time that we had a few more degrees of focus on human obligations and social responsibility.

While I probably am three files to the right of Genghis Khan and possibly in the right hand end of the front rank to boot, I cannot see how anyone has a problem with the instilling of discipline in children, young adults, adults and even SAGA louts forsooth. The last fifteen years of education have been under the leadership of people who claim to be scarred by organised sport or by failing their 11 Plus/Common entrance exams. Well spiteful brigade, thank you for sharing that with us and our children. Now lets get on with the re-organisation of an education system which was never broken and didn't need fixing until you lot got stuck in...

Its enough to make me storm out of my yurt, hop on one of my bushkhazi ponies and head for the gates of Constantinople, really it is!!
 
#10
My wife and I will cripple ourselves to send our children to private school just like my parents did. How sad that I shall have to do this just to ensure my children get a good and fair education. Fancy putting kids with special needs in the mainstream. They must get the p1ss taken out of them something rotten, it's not fair on them.

However, as I have no kids yet I shall continue to spend a kings ransom on fine ales and aisian cuisine.

.-.-.
 
#11
Cuddles, you ain't right wing - just normal.

It's the cretins who fail to instil discipline into their little "darlings" & the "let them express themselves" social inadequates who are to blame.

Excluding the parents from the gene pool might help :x
 
#13
One of my arguments for years has been that it was basic socialist policy to destroy the school system in UK.
This helps them convert the population from the bottom up.
Children do have rights.
The right to do what their parents and adult teachers tell them and at 18 sign on for duty with HM forces.
john
 
#14
jonwilly said:
One of my arguments for years has been that it was basic socialist policy to destroy the school system in UK.
This helps them convert the population from the bottom up.
Children do have rights.
The right to do what their parents and adult teachers tell them and at 18 sign on for duty with HM forces.
john
Exactly true, and not just the school system. It's the way of socialism to break down what is traditional and replace it with "new", that is complete with a made to look of tradition pedigree.

Same thing happened/is happening in Canada, and parts of the US.

But you know you'll just get labelled as a fuddy duddy who needs to move into "the 21st century". It's "the way of the future" you know.
The same rhetoric is used to justify the current proposals for cuts/changes in the British military, particularly the Inf.
 
#15
I hate them.
As a young lad I used to be allowed to sit in with my older brothers mates who where seven - ten years older then me.
The where all left leaning young men, and I heard a lot of socialist talk when I was in my early teens.
Red Star over China was the current 'In' book with the said group.
The last time I was back in UK on leave I was staying with my brother and we had some interesting discusions on UK and life in general.
The subject came up of all of my brothers old mates and what had become of them.
Brother who is now retired became a succesful owner of a light engineering company, 25-30 employees. All his other mates bar one where now running their own business.
The one who was 'Leader of the Socialist Pack' is now a uni professor teaching sociology/politics.
Just a comment on life, most people grow up and mature, wife and kids demand it, but a few never will, they will follow the failed religion to their grave.
john
 
#16
jonwilly said:
I hate them.
As a young lad I used to be allowed to sit in with my older brothers mates who where seven - ten years older then me.
The where all left leaning young men, and I heard a lot of socialist talk when I was in my early teens.
Red Star over China was the current 'In' book with the said group.
The last time I was back in UK on leave I was staying with my brother and we had some interesting discusions on UK and life in general.
The subject came up of all of my brothers old mates and what had become of them.
Brother who is now retired became a succesful owner of a light engineering company, 25-30 employees. All his other mates bar one where now running their own business.
The one who was 'Leader of the Socialist Pack' is now a uni professor teaching sociology/politics.
Just a comment on life, most people grow up and mature, wife and kids demand it, but a few never will, they will follow the failed religion to their grave.
john
Funny how many of them "adapt" when it comes to making money.
Of course the uni professor teaching sociology/politics, could still be one.
 
#17
I don't know which economist/philosopher stated that the best people have the heart of a socialist and the mind of a capitalist - it's a way of thinking I have personally always subscribed to.....

It shouldn't surprise anyone that 5 year olds are full of energy, so they should be!! But it's not natural exuberance we are talking about here. It would appear that there is a group of circumstances that have come together to produce these small monsters - overloading children with sugar, break down in the social contract between parent and teacher, parent and society, teacher and State.... and what is the common factor? Adults! You would think we were all big and ugly enough not to destroy the educational environment we push our kids through.

And I don't believe it's just a chav disease - do your kids hear you mouthing off against their teachers and the education system in general? Why should they have any respect for it if you don't?

I recently took a 17 year old girl through a course I run. She hated maths, had a real fear of it and when she told me abput the ritual, regular and public humilation meted out on her by her 'old-fashioned' maths teacher I wasn't surprised. She did some maths work with me (I am not a teacher, I bloody hate having to teach teenagers stuff they should have learned in the previous 10 years) and blow me, she passed her maths exam (all credit to her, not me).

I know her mother well, nice woman, responsible landlady it would seem. However it was this same woman who fed her neice 45-odd units of alcohol on her 16th birthday - a case study I cite every time I teach Licensing Law. This woman would not see herself as stupid or irresponsible - after all, her neice was out celebrating her birthday with her mother...

I think it wouldn't do us any harm to have a closer look at our own behaviour and attitudes - who knows how we are contributing to this overall problem?
 
#18
Kids + caffeinated, coloured, sugary drinks = bouncing-off-the-walls-ADHD-monsters. There have been several studies that replaced soft-drink vending machines with water dispensers in schools, and behaviour improved immediately.

My kids will not be drinking soft drinks or eating artificially-coloured sugary snacks or sugary cereal.
 
#19
Reference parents fear of prosecution for disciplining their children - I don't think that is what is causing this problem. I watched a programme that links to this the other night. (Honey, we're killing the kids', if you are really interested).

The show focused on the poor diet and general lifestyle a 'normal' couple from Manchester were giving their 3 kids. IE - the kids had an averaged intake of 45 grams a day, against the recommended maximum of 10 grams! Computer predictions and graphics aged the kids to 40 to illustrate what they would look like and forecast their healt problems, which were legion - this did help focus the parents attention somewhat, it has to be said!

But the interesting bit came when the parents tried telling the kids what to do - from not eating particular food to being in bed by 8pm. It quickly became apparent that the kids were used to getting what they wanted - ALL the time. The concept of parents telling (ordering to you and I) kids what to do was totally alien to the kids and they did not like it one bit. For the first 3 nights the two girls screamed and paddied etc for over 2 hours at bed time.

The parents said they had always wanted to be their kids friends (or some such wishy washy pap) and so had always let them (kids) do what they wanted. This had extended to letting them decide when to go to bed and eating what they wanted when they wanted. (Guess how much healthy food the kids ate before the healthy regime began? Answers to this thread!) Thus the kids were totally unused to discipline or any kind of structure in their lives. (Incidentally, the whole family were a lot happier once the total healthy regime was in place and running. )

The strange thing to me was watching actual parents get told how to be good parents - even though they were not deliberately negligent in the first place. They thought they were doing best for their kids. The thing I am wondering now is how many parents do that and think they are doing the right thing? Obviously quite a lot, judging by the reports emanating from the teachers conferences of late.

The question is how to get parents to regain the upper hand? Now, there is the real problem! I think that show should be on mainstream TV in peak time - it has more potential to improve the country than even the Jamie Oliver school dinners thing. I think a lot of parents would surprised (not to mention scared) at how similar they are to the 'TV' family.

And with that, I open the floor......(Bunkered up, flak jacket on!)
 
#20
El Gringo said:
...

The question is how to get parents to regain the upper hand?

...
I've yet to meet Parents who were completely trained for the job prior to production, or who received a workshop manual / user guide with their bundles of joy.

Fortunately there are some good sources of information around (look up Parenting Courses etc.) The better ones are not run by leftie do-gooders preaching kid's rights but by seasoned parents who've made the mistakes themselves. The techniques they offer work and there are good results reported.

The other important thing to do is to be prepared to research and challenge whatever you're told and then make your own mind up and stick to it. It is sickening to find out years too late that many of the things we were told were the "right" things to do were motivated by greed, big business and ignorance. In so many ways the general public are conned on a daily basis.

We've got three teenage girls and they're doing OK but it's been a war since the first was born - fortunately Mrs S and I have got the Good Cop Bad Cop routine off to a fine art and the balance of power is hopefully correct at time of writing.

The important thing is to give kids accurate information and dispel myth (even if they don't believe you) and to build their self-esteem so that they can make informed choices and buck the trend even if it's socially disastrous to do so - they sometimes make choices that you'd prefer they didn't but you win some lose some.

Be aware of "helpful" outside agencies - "friends" who offer kids coke or sweets because they don't get them at home - thanks guys. Bit of a p*sser for them when the kids actually say "no thanks" but they usually don't, at least to start with!

If you try and ban something they will only get it somewhere else. So often better to allow free choice but educate on the effects and remind them when they're suffering!

If you think this is all b*lls, then think on this.. later they're going to have to decide about smoking, drinking, sex, drugs, speeding, crime, etc etc Their choices will be highly influenced by the way they've been trained to deal with it.

Probably the best thing you can ever do as a parent is to build a relationship so that they know that whatever happens they can tell you about it. They need reminding throughout puberty, but it pays dividends.

The last thing I would want to see is my kids on the streets or in a box because I didn't bother or couldn;t handle something they'd done.

Oh and remind them that when you're old and dribbly, they'll have to change your nappy - especially when they're trying to impress their friends. Then fart and leave the room, head held high.

Thank God for military training!
 

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