Fitter/Design Trades and field command appointments

#41
Planties have quite an advantage because they can do C of (C), C of W (M), MPF or follow the normal stream.
 
#42
The_world_is_flat said:
plant_life said:
At least it's not as bad in as the REME. If they don't go Tiffy at full screw they are stuck at Sgt until they reach their 15 year point. They have to pick up first look at that point to have a hope of getting their WO1. That is seriously disadvantaging people just because they are not accademically (? spelling) inclined.
Yes but perversely only the RE could disadvantage its soldiers because they are academically inclined!

Become a combat engineer/artisan and the world is your oyster. You have all the career progression to QMSI, SSM, RSM and a good chance at commissioning as a result. If that doesn't work out have a shot at Clerk of Works. A POM has a shot at Plant/Q, MPF or Clerk of Works. Yet effectively some of the most intelligent soldiers in the Corps will soon have little or no career progression, unless they "dump" their trade and go Clerk of Works or G4.

Is it me?

Nope it ain't. What I don't understand is they didn't take notice when it was raised at their visit that people don't want to be trade streamed, and are signing off because of it. And coming from persons such as yourself, you'd think they would have! but oh no, they know best, RETENTION is a corps priority don't you know (cough cough bullsh*t cough)
 
#43
Geordie14 said:
Thanks for the replies and explaining that for me. I'm gonna have a good think on what trade to go for and pop in to the careers office. Although the last time I was there they said 'Why combat engineering, its only basic engineering work.'
Thanks again.
Combat Engineering is the sport of Gods I'll have you know.
 
#44
It's something that needs to be adressed at E in C level. What happened to the idea of soldier, COMBAT ENGINEER, tradesman?
 
#45
plant_life said:
It's something that needs to be adressed at E in C level. What happened to the idea of soldier, COMBAT ENGINEER, tradesman?
Where do you think direction for this is coming from FFS? The decision has already been made - Thou shalt become a Clerk of Works or thou shalt have no career!

cdn_spr said:
Nope it ain't. What I don't understand is they didn't take notice when it was raised at their visit that people don't want to be trade streamed, and are signing off because of it. And coming from persons such as yourself, you'd think they would have! but oh no, they know best, RETENTION is a corps priority don't you know (cough cough bullsh*t cough)
Sadly I have raised this at every opportunity - but it would appear that WOs and SNCOs from the design trades are now viewed as an "inconvenience" that can eventually be got rid of by PPP and natural wastage. It's a shabby way to treat people and is one of the major reasons why I did not apply to stay.
 
#46
Although I really am on your side here, as too many slots on B1s go unfilled I think your being harsh on the Res Specs. (yes I am one)
Ive seen some very bright lads come in and just shake their heads at the work I do, and freely admit that they couldnt do it.
Also if you want Combat Engr stores then dont ask my class 3 res spec as he will readily admit he has'nt got a clue. :shakefist:
So the main question is why oh why do so many slots on cse's go unfilled.
I did my B1 11 years to the day since doing my B3 and as a downgraded fat mess. :threaten:
But dont knock the Q stream mate you dont know you might find you like it :wink:
 
#47
HEART_STOPPER said:
Although I really am on your side here, as too many slots on B1s go unfilled I think your being harsh on the Res Specs. (yes I am one)
Ive seen some very bright lads come in and just shake their heads at the work I do, and freely admit that they couldnt do it.
Also if you want Combat Engr stores then dont ask my class 3 res spec as he will readily admit he has'nt got a clue. :shakefist:
So the main question is why oh why do so many slots on cse's go unfilled.
I did my B1 11 years to the day since doing my B3 and as a downgraded fat mess. :threaten:
But dont knock the Q stream mate you dont know you might find you like it :wink:
Not knocking Resources at all - it's not even an option for design trades - they would just not be able to do it. I have spent 3 years as an SQMS, filling the RQMS role as well during the last 6 months and I left the unit on promotion. I found Q duties interesting, very busy, personally rewarding but ultimately thank-less.

I don't think merely being able to the Cbt Engr 1 is the issue now. The issue is the Corps now deliberately putting barriers in place to force soldiers towards an "un-popular" career stream that they're struggling to get candidates for.
 
#49
Does anyone have any advice on action that can be taken as a result of this mess??? I'm not for one second expecting to be given the green light for B1 and a long fruitful knocking career but I would at least like to be an utter pain in the effing arrse.
Obviously none of this was explained to me when choosing my trade (ME FTR ACR) in fact quite the opposite. I only found out about this from my OC last year who has actively been sticking up for all the design trade guys at the Sqn. Surely there has to be some comeback for the cnut of a pso who conned me???
Also on a slight tangent what can be done about a lack of civ quals? When recruited, ACR came with NVQ level 3 from your A2. When i did that it turned out to be bollocks but the Army were still recruiting on that basis. I was told that I would definitely get an NVQ on my A1. I'm on that now and suprise suprise that's balls too. What exactly is my 2 year restriction for??? I'm not actually interested in the civ quals as the trade bores me to tears but as stated before i want to be a right royal pain. Surely someones head should roll as I was employed on a pack of lies on so many levels????
 
#50
Fatbadge said:
then dont ask my class 3 res spec
You have one? We havent got any yet :pissedoff:

I worry at your comment that he hasnt got a clue :shakefist:

Are they any advance on a decently looked after pot res spec SATT?


Yeah we had one of the first to do his course. I know he will get better with time, but he really needs to be allowed to do his B1 as well.
He hasnt got the f**k off attitude that we sometimes need (NO knocker) and if people lie to him he just doesnt see it and gives kit away :shakefist: He's a nice enough lad but thats the problem we just are'nt meant to be nice. :blowkiss: (Go on then knocker)
And TWIF you couldnt be more right it is a thankless task as rations/hexi/ex stores and all the batteries and bin bags you could ever want just magically appear :frustrated:
 
#51
G4 is always a thankless task, people don't realise how bloody important it is to have the right kit there on time.
H-S at least you have a decent bloke without loads of 'ttude.
 
#52
The_world_is_flat said:
[quote="The_world_is_flat] Edited!

As I see it for those already serving you're faced with 3 choices:

1. Swallow your pride, dilute your trade skills and go Clerk of Works (if you're young enough).
2. Stay within the Design/Q stream, dilute your trade skills and take your chances in G4.
3. Walk. Easier said than done I know.

Personally I am gutted for all those who have passed some of the most academically demanding courses a soldier can complete in the Corps - only to be told the only way you can progress to WO1 is to leave it all behind.

Is this any way to motivate people?
Surely for the academically demanding courses Clk WKs/MPF is the way to go? More academic with promotion prospects?

As for the G4 world, the more academic your training the easier it should be to cut it in the Q stream?
 
#53
Make_it_fit said:
The_world_is_flat said:
[quote="The_world_is_flat] Edited!

As I see it for those already serving you're faced with 3 choices:

1. Swallow your pride, dilute your trade skills and go Clerk of Works (if you're young enough).
2. Stay within the Design/Q stream, dilute your trade skills and take your chances in G4.
3. Walk. Easier said than done I know.

Personally I am gutted for all those who have passed some of the most academically demanding courses a soldier can complete in the Corps - only to be told the only way you can progress to WO1 is to leave it all behind.

Is this any way to motivate people?
Surely for the academically demanding courses Clk WKs/MPF is the way to go? More academic with promotion prospects?

As for the G4 world, the more academic your training the easier it should be to cut it in the Q stream?
The Clks Wks/MPF route IS more academic, and lets face it, promotion prospects are good, but the main reason I started this thread, and have now signed off, is the fact I had NO SAY whatsoever in the matter.

Essentially a large number of technically skilled tradesmen were mis-recruited into the corps, being told, as per another thread in the sappers forum, that a Royal Engineer soldier is:

Soldier First, Combat Engineer Second, Tradesman Third

when in fact for Fitter/Design trades it's more like

Future Clk Wks First, Tradesman Second, Stores Wallah Third, Combat Engineer for maybe the first part of your career Fourth, Soldier after all that

Also what pisses me off most about this now is that the decision to force design/q trades down the Clk Wks route was arbitrarily made, the only way I found out about it is via this website, and it was pretty unfairly done, ie why not at least say 'all design trades recruited after this date will be potential clk wks, all before still have somewhat of a say in their career'.

Also I think the point TWIF is making is that the corps is effectively punishing soldiers for pursuing a more academic trade by completely restricting their career prospects, my example is thus:

as a surveyor I rarely have the opportunity to go on any sort of course, due to the fact that my sqn is so shorthanded they cannot afford to have me away, I will also never be ANY of the following:

Class 1 Combat Engineer
Field Section Commander
Armoured Engineer crewman
Armoured Engineer crew commander
BD Engr
BDO (as a senior)
the list is endless......whereas if I had taken the easy route (and by this I mean they're only shorter A2 courses) of being a chippy/brickie, I could do any number of these things, as well as go 'Trade route'.

Anyways that's my rant off, apologies in advance if I got any of this wrong, tis simply my point of view from the shop floor.
 
#54
cdn_spr, i know that many lads will follow your route out of the corps.

their loss, all the best for the future.
 
#57
Woah, sorry to pull up such an old thread, I've recently passed ADSC and been accepted for my first choice (Surveyor) now just waiting impatiently for my start date. I was just wondering what the situation was now with this whole 'no field work for you brains, get back into the office' thing, have things improved at all?

Glad I found this now as I've been told from the start that I'll be soldier first, combat engineer second and tradesman third with a load of options open to me if I had the inclination and determination.

I have ambitions to go for P Coy as soon as I possibly can after trade training I've also got my eye on Army Diver and been training accordingly, will they try to stop because if that's the case I'm really going to have to reconsider my choices.

All I want to be is a Royal Engineer as it looks by far the best Corps for me as I thought I'd be getting a combat role with a chance to get some qualifications on the side, but if I'm going to fucked about and denied courses because I've got a few brain cells... I was under the assumption I'd be getting away from all that, that the army wouldn't cripple you if you had the drive and aptitude to be the best you could be, I thought they actively encouraged it!, or maybe I'm being naive?

A previous poster mentioned the Canadian Army, how do you go about joining them, do you talk directly to the Canooks or can you transfer over from the British army? Where can I find some info on this, just to know what the craic is?

Sorry about the essay for a first post and if I I'm coming across as a bit of a nob, but this topic has pissed me off and I was so sure that I'd found something worthwhile to work at and getting really excited about the army... still going to join like, but maybe not as a surveyor...

Cheers
 
#58
DrGonzO said:
A previous poster mentioned the Canadian Army, how do you go about joining them, do you talk directly to the Canooks or can you transfer over from the British army? Where can I find some info on this, just to know what the craic is?
I won't comment on anything else for I have been out for just under 12 months and am therefore a bit out of touch with the trade stream situation.

As for the canadian army, at the moment, you need to be a canadian citizen in order to join, no if ands or buts. They used to make exceptions but 9/11 changed all that. If you get citizenship however, and have experience, qualifications, and the paperwork to back it up, transferring from the British Army to the Canadian Army is rather straightforward. You will keep your rank, and have all qualifications recognised, with a minimal amount of retraining. In my case, I had to go to Gagetown (where there school is) for a month long CMD course, as all engr sect 2IC's in the canadian engineers are CMD qualified. Apart from that, I was sworn in on a thursday and posted to my new unit on a sunday, kitted out monday, start work tuesday. No basic training, no bullsh*t.

The citizenship issue is, so I hear, being debated at the highest level, as they realise how many brits are looking to transfer.

PM me for more info on the transfer issue. As for the trade shenanigans, I have no idea, but I did hear that a month or so after my de-kit, they changed the rules and let everyone do B1's. Which is just my luck.
 
#59
Canadian Army or B1? Mmm hard choice! Get down Oromocto my friend what a lively place that is:0

Fitter by trade, cbt engr by employment oh and cbt sig for being stupid enough to believe that DR crap, thought I would get my bike licence

Nine yrs as an Oggie and bloody good at it too! Then posted to an E2 post, where did I return to-Fd Tp-nah bloody Wksps, not touched my trade for almost a decade(postings wise, being professioanl of course Ihad oiled my adjustables)

CoW asked on day oen man service -told you've been recommended get some experience-got that and the t-shirts, Cow cse on cse off, nothing said, tour as a ftr-showed my undoubted ability and intelligence (OK poetic licence there) CoW young man-been trying for yrs Sir-GE get sme on Cse-cse oncse off-cutbacks don't you know, new post Staff Asst rings from 38 my parent Regt has a conference call with my 'CO' OC and self fancy COW (M) starts next month some vacancies and your name is up-yeeah at last-forty minutes later stand down, your not B1-fecking am-top of the cse name on the wall and all to prove it! forty more minutes-you havent doen bananas-mmmmmmmm seem to remember you only get on it as FTR RE if loaded on COW-catch 22 anyone? Posted CoW turns up former troopy-why aren't you on COW name was on the list for cse started two moths ago! nO FECKER TOLD ME! Right on next yrs cse then =-that ok- why not says the gullible Ftr RE-sorry now FtrEqpt -sorted up until Mar 14-cse start date 3 Apr-your too old, not enought time left to promote to WO1! No shit Sherlock.

I would rather build a five bay on my own than fix another engine for the green machine, and how come we all got hammered for FTR/Q stream I apparently signed to that effect-strangely enough on the day in question I was on a life support machine in a BMH, me thinks I have been conned somewhere along the way, thank God I enjoyed it, otherwise I would be a bitter and twisted old fart- mmmmmmmmmmm might have to redefine enjoyment.

Oh yeah what happened to that 'can't promote in last two years ruling' effectively meant an ex apprentice had 18-19yrs to get in 22yrs worth of promotion opportunity and if the Inf were exempt on grounds of 'the large tranche affected' what abotu all of us in Corps; who statistically stay longer than the average Inf lad?

Blue book, that'll be the one that said and still lays down reporting mechanisms for E2 posts but is then interpreted by buffoons who say stupid things like' if you want to work outside the Corps you have to expect there might be the odd hiccup because you haven't had any RE input to your CR' 'Hmm POSTING ORDER, not request!'

right rant over -for now-over to Chimera to bring a sense of calm to the thread-me off to the REA to drink with other bitter an twisted old fools-
 
#60
I'm going to resurrect this long dead thread and ask what the situation is now? Out of curiousity mainly.

Have they changed the rules at all as I last heard? What are the retention/manning rates looking like these days?

Signed

Not curious in that sense in gagetown
 
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