Fitter/Design Trades and field command appointments

Discussion in 'Sappers' started by cdn_spr, Jan 7, 2005.

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  1. Recently within my squadron, alot of blokes have chosen to sign off, or otherwise had their careers 'stifled' by the fact that RE MCM div decides that they cannot hold a field appointment ie field section commander based on their trade. One example is a CMT L/Cpl, with about 6 years experience, being denied his B1 due to the fact that 'he doesn't need it for promotion'. This has led to an embarrasing situation in that he is in a field troop, knows how to do tasks only a b1 can technically do ie change blades on a makita saw etc, but isn't allowed to as he is only qualified to b2. He's now signed off because of this.

    another situation is a fitter hvac in my troop who has to do his JCC's in order to go clk-of-wks, even though he was told by the RCMO that he'll never hold a field section commander appointment due to his trade, and feels hes in a bit of a backwater career-wise unless he goes clk of wks.

    anyone else with similar experiences? anyone able to clarify what the actual rules are? are there any ways around it? reason I ask is as a surveyor, I'm happy to do my a1, but would like to continue in the combat stream rather than get trade posted ie chilwell for the rest of my career. my troopy doesn't seem to know much about it, hence why I'm asking on here first before trying to speak to anyone else in the chain of command.
  2. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    REMCM has got a bit **** recently about who can do B1 Cbt Engr. Best advice is to go and see your RCMO not your troop commander. I am frankly amazed that REMCM would let your CMT mate sign of rather than let him do a B1 course. Making CofW do JCC is logical as bear in mind these guys come out of the course as SNCOs. What regiment are you (PM me if you like)?
  3. chimera - 39. I spoke to my staffy a while ago about it and as far as he was concerned, I was a combat engineer first, surveyor second so they've already bid for my b1 this year. Another surveyor in the squadron did his b1 a while ago, so I always though it weird that a CMT was just totally blocked from doing his b1. If it comes to a head I will speak to the RCMO, especially if I end up trade posted at the end of my time here.

    according to the blue book, b1 is only essential for promotion for artisan trades, fitter/design trades don't need it for cpl (just a1) but can do it for employability within the unit. I've also heard a horror story about a CMT getting loaded onto a b1, only to be literally told to fcuk off (in a nice way of course) when he got to gib, only having travelled from germany to attend!
  4. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    Bit of a pi**er being sent back on a B1 to Germany - especially since ETAT runs B1 courses at Sennelager, and they are crying out for people to fill courses!! I am sure that your staffy has given good advice, but best check with RCMO if you are in any doubt - REMCM has a habit of changing its 'interpretation' of the Blue Book rules, and with the Corps going through such a huge expansion for FAS (and we haven't even completely finished the SDR expansion yet) I suspect that things may be a little fluid. I think that in your trade you are in a good position.

    If you get and drama PM me - I might be able to prod a few folks here and there.
  5. This is a tricky one. The Fitter/CMT & srvyr streams are slightly out of kilter with the Artisan trades. As I understand it these trades career paths are such that on reaching SSgt you would be expected to go SQMS/Q streamed and then trade specific. The reorganisation under RESSUR in 1997 established each trade with a specific career path including sufficient numbers of SNCO, WOII and WOI slots to enable every one a fair chance. Unfortunately if you are a Draftsman, surveyor and ceretainly a fitter then you may be looking a trade only posts, Trg Regts and the Q route. It would be highly unusual for any of these trades to be able to go down the Cmbt stream if at all and they are also refusing to retrade individuals.

    This is the situation as I know it and I don't agree with it but I am not the EinC.

  6. Cheers for the advice etc on this thread. It hasn't come to a head yet, but when my posting is due I suppose I'll find out. Gonna put in for armd, but won't be surprised if I get chilwell.

    when I was on my a-2, even my instructor (civvy, ex staffy of the old and bold variety, been a surveyor since 1974ish) thought it was better to have surveyors in the combat stream than just trade oriented. perhaps this'll change with FAS and the expansion of the corps, but I doubt it.
  7. Right I'm gonna resurrect this thread to see if any newer members can shed some light on the mystery that is REMCM div posting policy. I understand that its priorities are 'Army needs', 'corps needs' and 'soldier needs', but, seeing as I joined on the premise that I would be a cbt engr first and tradesman second, I find it disturbing to realise that unless I can convince MCM div to cbt stream me, I'll spend the rest of my career either as a surveyor or an SQ, or CoW if I make the choice. Still trying to get an RCMO's interview to clarify everything.

    Basically, I'm happy to do my trade, just not full time. Would rather be in a slightly more warry, and tour heavy, unit than 39 (at present) pr MWF (where I'd likely end up).

    Is going either para or cdo my only option to do proper cbt engineering?

    Any help as usual would be appreciated.
  8. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    Since you started this thread in January I find this hard to believe. If you want PM me your name, and how often you have tried to get into see him, I will see what I can do.
  9. Unfortunately, even that won't help - even when they trawl a B1 course to try and fill it up, they're still not allowing /Q stream nominations. My copy of the blue book says something along the lines of '/Q stream trades do not need to do B1, unless needed for employment reasons' (my emphasis, and it's not a direct quote). However, MCM have not been allowing this exemption, which means that, for instance, there's not a lot of point in training up someone who's /Q stream as a recce operator, as he'll never be able to be a patrol commander.

    In effect, we're forcing a lad to make a choice at 16-18, not just of his trade, but also of his career path, and blocking off some options right from the start. I don't think this can be a retention positive measure - surely its better to have a 'mis-employed' /Q stream guy, rather than have him sign off because he can't do what he wants to. It also leads to dramas like, for instance, a guy who is selected for CoW and has had previous bids for B1 rejected, then having to add that to the long list of courses he's got to cram in before his CoW course starts...

    However, having said all that, give All Arms or P Coy a try anyway - 23 and 24 will both need technical trades, clerks of works, etc...
  10. Had quite a varied B1. We had drivers, POMs, surveyors and the rest on mine. There was no moaning as to who was entitled to be there or not. If you are serving in a field/armoured troop you should be able to do to your B1. Otherwise you end up in a situation like I was in a few Med Mans ago where the only B1s around was me and a driver and we had to supervise a reserve dem. We had only been in a Sp or MT troop so had minimal experiance where as there were guys there who had done similar tasks loads of times but wen't qualified because they were a design trade.
  11. yeah I wish I'd known about this little design pigeonhole I'll shoved into later in my career. During an MCM div/RCMO brief we had earlier in the year, the RCMO said that in rare cases would blokes in design/tech streams be cbt streamed so we'll see what happens if/when I get an interview with him.
  12. Hey up been offline for a while. This whole thread is something that has cost the CRE a lot of good men. Basically Q stream trades can either go trade/ instructor or resources stream. A very good friend of mine who i can honestly say is the best soldier i have ever worked with very reluctantly left the army last month because he wanted to go field stream, but was a q trade. This policy is being reviewed after the Brig CRE theatre troops visited us on exercise in January and this was brought to his attention by my Staffy. Imagine my mates shock when 2 months before he was due to say goodbye to H M Forces the Brig contacted him and said the policy is to be changed very shortly so if you dont want to leave sign back on. My mates response was too little too late i have plans, but at least the CRE is doing something about it! It still doesnt change the fact that i know a fair few people who have sacked the army because of this!
  13. Well I certainly hope this policy is changing soon, a lad I know from 51 who said that on his B1 (done this year) a surveyor tipped up and was, like the CMT previously, RTU'd simply because he was a surveyor and as such didn't need his B1. chimera, still trying to sort out the RCMOs interview via the CofC but will let ya know if I run into further difficulties/stonewalling/blatant disregard.
  14. :D Hi All,
    Same happen to me, Just Picked up on the last board, went to see the rcmo and after two weeks of phone calls and emails to mcm div i am told that i can only be posted to a none recorded post or a ftr acr post and as there is only 2 in the corp for full screw. So i said i would relinquish my trade( kind of me i know!!) NO says the man cos if i do i will be deselected as i was promted as a ftr acr and not a cbt eng. Have been constantly refused B1 because of my trade and when i got posted from 39 guess where i went???? thats right a mech unit!! COMBAT ENGINEERING!!!. I have sh*t out and am having to be posted as a Rp fullscrew or some other naff job like that!! jackpot career over!!
    Has anyone any idea when the rules are changing?
    P.S Sorry to drag up this old thread!
  15. Why be sorry? If it needs sorting out it needs talking about. For the good of the Corps and it's soldiers, and you shouldn't have to appologise for that.