Fang_Farrier

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With regard to Gascoigne's Hall of Fame, interesting debate yesterday on Radio Scotland, it would appear that the only person they could find to support his nomination was that good old footballer Allister Campbell (Spin Doctor to T Blair)

The debate ranged around such topics as should the wife beating, rascist, violent, substance abuser should ever have been nominated in the first place to once nominated whether a redaction on grounds of mental illness was reasonable.

The first part depends upon whether you believe that footballers are role models and that a Hall of Fame should reflect just their football skills or their entire life.
The second however was once that decision to award the Hall of Fame was made that mental health was not a reason to withdraw it.
 
So do you strip all the moral paragons such as the wife beating alcoholic Jinky Johnstone from the SFA Hall of fame?
 

witsend

Old-Salt
Book Reviewer
With regard to Gascoigne's Hall of Fame, interesting debate yesterday on Radio Scotland
Sorry Fang but I never listened to it. I’m led to believe Alastair Campbell was put in his box by Jim Spence the Arab. That will be Jim on the radar of the ‘people’.........AGAIN.

I’m sure you’re familiar with Scottish fitba but let me educate anyone who isn’t. Walk the fence like fangs post or you may find yourself on the receiving end of the people. This is an imaginary list of enemies of the team that trains out of Sir David ‘Murray’ Park, or is it Auchenhowie, or is it Milngavie, or is it Hummel something or other? It changes every month depending on which way the wind blows.

This week add the Alloa chairman Mike Mulraney to that infamous list. He is apparently the man who revoked the nomination of Gazza. I bet he’s taking steps and advice from Police Scotland to protect himself and his family, and if he wasn’t before, he’s a seriously worried man.

My thoughts on Gazza are he was a great footballer with a flawed character. IMHO, he shouldn’t have been nominated for many reasons which’s I’m not going to repeat. The clever course of action would have been to postpone this nomination until any outstanding court cases are resolved.........but that’s too sensible in the crazy world of Scottish fitba where many people from both sides have a political and religious agendas.

Me personally, I just want to watch Scotland in a World Cup before i die.
 
Sorry Fang but I never listened to it. I’m led to believe Alastair Campbell was put in his box by Jim Spence the Arab. That will be Jim on the radar of the ‘people’.........AGAIN.

I’m sure you’re familiar with Scottish fitba but let me educate anyone who isn’t. Walk the fence like fangs post or you may find yourself on the receiving end of the people. This is an imaginary list of enemies of the team that trains out of Sir David ‘Murray’ Park, or is it Auchenhowie, or is it Milngavie, or is it Hummel something or other? It changes every month depending on which way the wind blows.

This week add the Alloa chairman Mike Mulraney to that infamous list. He is apparently the man who revoked the nomination of Gazza. I bet he’s taking steps and advice from Police Scotland to protect himself and his family, and if he wasn’t before, he’s a seriously worried man.

My thoughts on Gazza are he was a great footballer with a flawed character. IMHO, he shouldn’t have been nominated for many reasons which’s I’m not going to repeat. The clever course of action would have been to postpone this nomination until any outstanding court cases are resolved.........but that’s too sensible in the crazy world of Scottish fitba where many people from both sides have a political and religious agendas.

Me personally, I just want to watch Scotland in a World Cup before i die.
So the SFA are using Gazza's previous indiscretions as the reason to not admit him, should that not apply to players with a similar chequered life outside of football, like I mentioned above?
 
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Auld-Yin

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I note that PG is good enough for the English FA Hall of Fame

English Football Hall of Fame - Wikipedia Year 2002.

If he'd been nominated when he was playing in Scotland then I doubt there would have been an issue and I also doubt there would be calls for him to be taken off the list.

Personally I think he is a character who brought a lot to the game. He was just as good at Wendyball as many on the list so I would have no problems with Gazza being inducted to the HofF.
 

Fang_Farrier

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So the SFA are using Gazza's previous indiscretions as the reason to not admit him, shoukd that not apply to players with a similar chequered life outside of fooymtball, like I mentioned above?
Too simple a question, one has to take into account, were they inducted before or after their various offences were known.

At what time in their life were they inducted, as Auld Yin states PG was inducted into English HoF in 2002, which was before many of his foibles became fully public knowledge or had occurred.

What is the political climate at the time of the induction. Your example of Jinky, he was inducted in 2004 as part of the foundation of the HoF when the atmosphere of political correction was at a far different level that it is now.
 
Too simple a question, one has to take into account, were they inducted before or after their various offences were known.

At what time in their life were they inducted, as Auld Yin states PG was inducted into English HoF in 2002, which was before many of his foibles became fully public knowledge or had occurred.

What is the political climate at the time of the induction. Your example of Jinky, he was inducted in 2004 as part of the foundation of the HoF when the atmosphere of political correction was at a far different level that it is now.
So now it has come to light nothing is to be done? Cop out of an excuse. 'Sporting integrity' would dictate either Gazza is inducted or Johnstone amongst other are removed.
 
Too simple a question, one has to take into account, were they inducted before or after their various offences were known.

At what time in their life were they inducted, as Auld Yin states PG was inducted into English HoF in 2002, which was before many of his foibles became fully public knowledge or had occurred.

What is the political climate at the time of the induction. Your example of Jinky, he was inducted in 2004 as part of the foundation of the HoF when the atmosphere of political correction was at a far different level that it is now.
Let me get this right, you are saying wife beating wasn't a big issue in 2004?!
 

Fang_Farrier

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Let me get this right, you are saying wife beating wasn't a big issue in 2004?!
No, I am saying that whilst an issue it was not the big political correct issue that domestic violence is today.

All things change. We currently have the likes of Statues of Cecil Rhodes being removed, Kipling's poems being over written, I even saw recently that someone had had to apologise for quoting Churchill (Rhodes Imperialistic, Kipling imperialistic and racist, Churchill racist)

Attitudes change with time. Not saying that awards should or should not be removed retrospectively but the award should be given under the attitudes of the time awarded.
Thus PG English HoF should be analysed with a view to the attitudes of 2002, but his Scottish one in 2018
 
No, I am saying that whilst an issue it was not the big political correct issue that domestic violence is today.

All things change. We currently have the likes of Statues of Cecil Rhodes being removed, Kipling's poems being over written, I even saw recently that someone had had to apologise for quoting Churchill (Rhodes Imperialistic, Kipling imperialistic and racist, Churchill racist)

Attitudes change with time. Not saying that awards should or should not be removed retrospectively but the award should be given under the attitudes of the time awarded.
Thus PG English HoF should be analysed with a view to the attitudes of 2002, but his Scottish one in 2018
Nomination guideline

The committee of the Scottish Football Hall of Fame will consider nominees who meet the following criteria…

1) Players recognised as being Scottish (in compliance with FIFA’s international guidelines on eligibility) once they have retired from the game.

2) Non Scottish players who have made a significant contribution to Scottish football and who have since finished playing in Scotland.

3) Managers recognised as being Scottish who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

4) Non Scottish managers who have made a significant contribution to Scottish football and who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

5) Officials recognised as being Scottish who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

6) Non Scottish officials who have made a significant contribution to Scottish football and who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

Doesn't mention amythig about off field antics on the website and Gazza clearly meets criteria 2.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Nomination guideline

The committee of the Scottish Football Hall of Fame will consider nominees who meet the following criteria…

1) Players recognised as being Scottish (in compliance with FIFA’s international guidelines on eligibility) once they have retired from the game.

2) Non Scottish players who have made a significant contribution to Scottish football and who have since finished playing in Scotland.

3) Managers recognised as being Scottish who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

4) Non Scottish managers who have made a significant contribution to Scottish football and who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

5) Officials recognised as being Scottish who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

6) Non Scottish officials who have made a significant contribution to Scottish football and who are deemed to have spent a reasonable length of time in their chosen field.

Doesn't mention amythig about off field antics on the website and Gazza clearly meets criteria 2.

Then I suggest you write here and complain then.
Contact Us | Scottish Football Association| Scottish FA

They may be able to give you a better answer than I can as to why they have chosen not to allow a wife beating, racist, violent, substance abuser to enter into their Hall of Fame in the modern era of political correction where sports are trying to battle drug taking and racism as well as the world wide stance against domestic violence.
 
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Sixty

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So do you strip all the moral paragons such as the wife beating alcoholic Jinky Johnstone from the SFA Hall of fame?
Jimmy Johnstone - dead and unable to defend himself. Never charged with violence. Spoken of highly by his widow.

Paul Gascoigne - alive, confessed to knocking his wife about. Fined for racist abuse. Fined for harassment. Tell-all book written by the woman he battered. Air flautist.

That'll be your difference. Or do you see all through red, white and blue goggles?
 

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