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First Aid kit for a car

In preparing his car First Aid kit, has Themanwho:

  • Done the right thing - BZ!

    Votes: 24 60.0%
  • Gone a little bit OTT, but the idea is sound (you saddo).

    Votes: 8 20.0%
  • A bit scary, but erm okay... Why don't you join St Johns Ambulance?

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Mummy, keep the scary man away from my sore bits!

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • One step away from a prepper's stash in the woods - get a fcuking life.

    Votes: 4 10.0%

  • Total voters
    40

A.N.Other

Old-Salt
After years in the army, further education, transport and logistics, security, and vehicle recovery, all you need is a phone and an accurate knowledge of where you are. Then leave it to professionals who are, allegedly, trained and equipped to do the job.

In your example you've abandoned your car, on a motorway, to help somebody else. Admirable, but causes as many problems as it solves.
First rule of first aid, don't become a casualty yourself.
Sorry but that advice leads to unnecessary death or life changing injury. Standing by while an unconscious person in the car dies from positional asphyxiation when all you had to do was lift their chin up? Or someone's bleeding out from a leg trapped under the dash?

These will kill the cas before the professionals turn up.

Even the most basic first aid training with no kit is preferable to just driving by.
 
CPR face shields is a good call: Hi viz, torch and cyalumes are already in the car boot kit (of which the shonky first aid kit was part), along with an entrenching tool and the world's supply of bleeding shopping bags. I've always got a knife, torch, notebook and pen on me, because I am exactly that sad.

Your last paragraph is what got to me; I'm usually pretty well prepared for anything especially when travelling, and it gave me a shock to find I had left myself so vulnerable to events.
Very easily done.

Except when fell-running, I always carry far more kit than I need when out in the hills. Often to much piss-taking from mates. The expectation is I won’t need to use it, but another idiot might. The smugness of handing over an extra mid-layer to a gibbering mate on a slow crib goch gravers and the return piss-taking in the pub makes up for it.

I am very out of date on first aid beyond MATT3 but when I did a wilderness course I was told of the Good Samaritan principle, ie you can’t be held liable for helping people in certain situations - eg you can’t make an unconscious non-breathing casualty worse, so anything you do that keeps them alive is fair game. I’d take the same approach with someone in a car accident, leaking petrol near a flame, get them out before they burn to death, even if they end up quadraspazzed, you’ve probably saved their life (if no blue light immediately inbound)

If they are complaining about their neck hurting, I’d maybe offer them a splint to put on themselves but would think twice before doing it myself.

I’d be interested if any first responders have any better knowledge/clarity/advice? @AsterixTG might know a bit more about the legal situation.
 

Yokel

LE
Mask for mouth to mouth but avoid the thin 'hanky' style one, get one of these -
View attachment 513627

I used to carry one of the fold up plastic masks for CPR, like the ones the Police carry. Where can I get a replacement?

Under no circumstances place a casualty in your own car even if pissing down, if they then complain of neck/back pain the chances are your going to lose your roof
it happens trust me.

Would the insurers pay up?

Very easily done.

Except when fell-running, I always carry far more kit than I need when out in the hills. Often to much piss-taking from mates. The expectation is I won’t need to use it, but another idiot might. The smugness of handing over an extra mid-layer to a gibbering mate on a slow crib goch gravers and the return piss-taking in the pub makes up for it.

I am very out of date on first aid beyond MATT3 but when I did a wilderness course I was told of the Good Samaritan principle, ie you can’t be held liable for helping people in certain situations - eg you can’t make an unconscious non-breathing casualty worse, so anything you do that keeps them alive is fair game. I’d take the same approach with someone in a car accident, leaking petrol near a flame, get them out before they burn to death, even if they end up quadraspazzed, you’ve probably saved their life (if no blue light immediately inbound)

If they are complaining about their neck hurting, I’d maybe offer them a splint to put on themselves but would think twice before doing it myself.

I’d be interested if any first responders have any better knowledge/clarity/advice? @AsterixTG might know a bit more about the legal situation.

@dingerr might know. I also believe that the patient's consent is assumed in live saving situations such as an unconscious or concussed person, or someone in shock.

I imagine that as long as you act reasonably and in good will then you should be alright.
 
Very easily done.

Except when fell-running, I always carry far more kit than I need when out in the hills. Often to much piss-taking from mates. The expectation is I won’t need to use it, but another idiot might. The smugness of handing over an extra mid-layer to a gibbering mate on a slow crib goch gravers and the return piss-taking in the pub makes up for it.

I am very out of date on first aid beyond MATT3 but when I did a wilderness course I was told of the Good Samaritan principle, ie you can’t be held liable for helping people in certain situations - eg you can’t make an unconscious non-breathing casualty worse, so anything you do that keeps them alive is fair game. I’d take the same approach with someone in a car accident, leaking petrol near a flame, get them out before they burn to death, even if they end up quadraspazzed, you’ve probably saved their life (if no blue light immediately inbound)

If they are complaining about their neck hurting, I’d maybe offer them a splint to put on themselves but would think twice before doing it myself.

I’d be interested if any first responders have any better knowledge/clarity/advice? @AsterixTG might know a bit more about the legal situation.
Gather information then pass it on to the professionals as quickly as possible.
Calling an ambulance needs what, where, when, how, why, who, then let them deal with it.
From experience, a bloke having his arm ripped off in a conveyor belt, your factory first aid box isn't going to solve.
The lady that's collapsed from contact with hyacinths, who turns out to be pregnant, hungover, and needs an interpreter, different case entirely, but again nothing your first aid kit covers.
Cars left or broken down on motorways have statiscally less than 2 minutes before some dimwit crashes into them, which is why most recovery firms drag it off the motorway before attempting any repair.
Paramedics turn up to deal with a knife wound, remove the dressing the first aider put on 5 minutes earlier, then decide it needs sutures, which you told them over the phone, but they're not allowed to suture so a minor cut gets another ambulance to take the casualty to a hospital 30 miles away with no means of getting home after treatment.
Paramedic turns up to collapsed casualty, refuses offered stretcher and 4 large men to carry her to the first aid room because they haven't been trained.

And then the inevitable inquiry later of who did what, when, why and how, and is there any way the company can blame someone else?
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
After years in the army, further education, transport and logistics, security, and vehicle recovery, all you need is a phone and an accurate knowledge of where you are. Then leave it to professionals who are, allegedly, trained and equipped to do the job.

In your example you've abandoned your car, on a motorway, to help somebody else. Admirable, but causes as many problems as it solves.
First rule of first aid, don't become a casualty yourself.
No, that's just Monday morning quarterbacking as our lovely cousins would say.

Plod turned up after 15 minutes, shortly followed by Ambulance (pretty good on a motorway I thought). Still plenty of time for casualties to die without timely assistance My car was stationary in amongst the stalled traffic, as the accident had blocked all lanes. As I ran up to the scene (through already stationary vehicles) there were children outside of a car in the fast lane screaming and crying in the central reservation, with their Dad swearing and about to run off to do in the truck driver (who he blamed), smoke coming from the transit van which was on its roof with its nose in the verge bank, with the driver trapped in his seatbelt upside down, two people in a car diagonally across the inner and middle lanes, both dazed and one bleeding with one door jammed, and the truck about 50m further along on the hard shoulder. If it hadn't been for the dozen people who immediately reacted and left their cars to help, things could have been far worse.

As it was, nobody died, everyone involved in the accident was safely marshalled to the verge, casualties were dealt with and looked after, the car driver wasn't arrested for assault, the truck driver wasn't assaulted, and a clear path for emergency vehicles was made along the hard shoulder (by clearing the fcukwits who thought they would be able to get past). All in all it was an extremely good reaction from members of the general public which meant when the emergency services did arrive, they could dive straight in and take over, which is exactly what happened once they were briefed (by an off duty nurse and me - we were dealing with the two most serious casualties).

There are three types of people:
  • Those who see danger and run towards it to help (suitably prepared).
  • Those who see danger and run away, or freeze, or tell themselves someone else will do it.
  • Those who see danger and start fcuking filming. The cnuts.
I'm far too set in my ways to do nothing or start being a cnut.
 

RTU'd

Old-Salt
Most off the shelf First Aid Kits for cars are crap & over priced.
Mine is a combination of Car/HGV/Travel & Adventure.
Gloves, loads of them are essential as is a current First Aid Qualification.
Some courses on Driver CPC offer 1st Aid cover?

I bought from Boots/Lloyds Pharmacy/Sainsburys/Lifeventure & Millets(Foil Blanket/Bivi Shelter)

Have to admit I'm a bit of a H&S Freak when it comes to First Aid Kits.
 

A.N.Other

Old-Salt
Very easily done.

Except when fell-running, I always carry far more kit than I need when out in the hills. Often to much piss-taking from mates. The expectation is I won’t need to use it, but another idiot might. The smugness of handing over an extra mid-layer to a gibbering mate on a slow crib goch gravers and the return piss-taking in the pub makes up for it.

I am very out of date on first aid beyond MATT3 but when I did a wilderness course I was told of the Good Samaritan principle, ie you can’t be held liable for helping people in certain situations - eg you can’t make an unconscious non-breathing casualty worse, so anything you do that keeps them alive is fair game. I’d take the same approach with someone in a car accident, leaking petrol near a flame, get them out before they burn to death, even if they end up quadraspazzed, you’ve probably saved their life (if no blue light immediately inbound)

If they are complaining about their neck hurting, I’d maybe offer them a splint to put on themselves but would think twice before doing it myself.

I’d be interested if any first responders have any better knowledge/clarity/advice? @AsterixTG might know a bit more about the legal situation.
You're right about the good samaritan principle. The last I heard is that no one in the UK has been prosecuted for trying to give aid. The exception to the rule I'ds if you are trained you do not go beyond the bounds of your training.

I carry chest deals and tourniquets in the car. I have 11 years as a MR casualty carer, including advanced trauma training. I'll happily use these tools and would not be prosecuted even if the cas dies. I did all I could within my training.

While I know how to perform a needle decompression or a craic.... (can't remember how to spell the improvised airway by cutting into the throat) I have not been trained to do so. If I did these on a casualty and got it wrong then I would expect to be in the Dock. Or at least face a civil lawsuit.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Gaffa tape. It's got a ton of uses from temporary wound closure to head restraint and splinting.
That's already in my car boot kit.

Jesus, I need to get a life.
 
Attended a casualty whilst in a mountain rescue team at the request of the local ambulance service. We were right in the area and arrived a good 15m before the paramedics. It was only a couple hundred yards from a decent road

The casualty refused treatment - immobile with lower leg injury in the pouring rain - because we ‘weren’t the ambulance’.

We just fucked off back to the motor and had a brew.

We did give the paramedics a lift carrying him off in due course.
 

Yokel

LE
The first thing is to prevent further injury.

Another issue is what to say during the 999 call. I think it useful to remember LIONEL:

LOCATION
INCIDENT
OTHER SERVICES REQUIRED
NUMBER OF CASUALTIES
EXTENT OF INJURIES
LOCATION (repeated)

But try to clear their airway or staunch major bleeding first. Unless you have medical training then keep you assessments simple.

You can assess consciousness on the AVPU scale.

ALERT
Responds to VOICE
Responds to PAIN
UNRESPONSIVE

Likewise I guess the rule of nines is too complex for a first aide, simply report what body part is burnt and how deep it looks.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
I think everyone has covered everything except brandy, lots and lots of brandy and one of those big dogs to carry it.
I'm not buying a fcuking dog. The cnuts can die.
 

Teeblerone

Old-Salt
That's already in my car boot kit.

Jesus, I need to get a life.
Nah, a bit of foresight & thinking is always good. An ECG app on your phone would be a bit mad, however... ;)
Back to gaffa tape; I've used it to hold dressings/ as a temporary splint at home. What kind of person doesn't have a couple of rolls about? A silly person, that's who :)

(for some reason, I used to have a couple of wire coathangers in my 'first aid' box in the motor. Can't for the life of me remember if they were there for a FA reason or just tidied away from camping kit/dry cleaning/incipient madness etc etc )
 
I've also seen it recommended that, unless a trained health professional or someone is about to die and you can prevent it giving first aid, the best thing you can do is take control and start giving people tasks. Often people will either freeze or worry about getting involved. Taking control of a situation and telling people what to do can, and will make it happen. Being able to brief what info you have/history of what has happened supposedly being more helpful to a paramedic on arrival than putting a triangular sling and the world's supply of elastoplast on someone.

Any first responders on here reckon that is sensible or is it nonsense?
 

Yokel

LE
@supermatelot might be able to say which bit of information to 999 callers forget most often, and what mnemonic is best.

Speak loudly and clearly. It may help to speak slowly. When help arrives, remember to tell the Paramedics/doctor/etc MIST:

Mechanism of injury
Injury found
Signs and symptoms
Treatment Given
 

Teeblerone

Old-Salt
I've also seen it recommended that, unless a trained health professional or someone is about to die and you can prevent it giving first aid, the best thing you can do is take control and start giving people tasks. Often people will either freeze or worry about getting involved. Taking control of a situation and telling people what to do can, and will make it happen. Being able to brief what info you have/history of what has happened supposedly being more helpful to a paramedic on arrival than putting a triangular sling and the world's supply of elastoplast on someone.

Any first responders on here reckon that is sensible or is it nonsense?
Good point! Job FA training was DR STAB or somesuch
D anger (live wires/fire/vehicles)
R esponse (Oi you! slacker on the ground, what are you up to?)
S hout (You there! C'mere!)
T ell (I need you to phone 999: unconscious male, breathing, suspect broken leg. Tell me what I just said, go phone & come back)
A irways
B reathing
 

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