Firing on the community

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by OldRedCap, May 11, 2009.

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  1. I started a thread re the deaths of five US soldiers in Iraq. Obviously, that thread has to be reserved for messages of respect RIP etc but the incident prompted me to ask what it is that seems to lead to the sort of incident where someone goes berserk and opens fire on the community, his erstwhile fellow employees etc? I'm not aware of any studies but there must have been some research. We've only had the two but being a school kid in USA seems a risky business.
  2. Apparently "going postal" has become quite common in the US workplace. On average one employee per week is murdered in the workplace. The spree killing seems to have slowed down a bit but the average stats are still keeping up.
  3. rampant

    rampant LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    I don't think this can be described as an American problem, there have been plenty of incidents in school shootings here in Europe.

    With regard to this particular incident, we simply just don't know the facts. However, if I were to hazard a guess, I would suggest something along the lines of acute paranoid schiziophrenia, brought on by PTSD. He has been in an environment where he just doesn't know who the enemy is: could it be an old man, a child, a woman in hijab. Every car that he passes might be his death, every corner he looks around, every strange pile of dust on the side of the road.

    The constant pressure that this sort of scenario inflicts upon the human psyche is fairly well documented, coupled with the extreme tour lengths that American soldiers undergo, and with no real outlet for the emotions and the thoughts running round and around in his head, they are constantly pounding away inside of him until he reaches the stage where he doesn't know what is real and what is not, what is up & what is down. And then snap!

    It is a deeply regretably incident.

    Condolences to the bereaved.
  4. Understood. In the latest incident, firearms very readily available but in some of the other US homeland shootings the shooter has had to go and get a weapon and then travel to his place of slaughter. Need to relieve pressure as you refer to it is understood and agreed but why do it by planning and then carrying out the workplace/school shootings?
  5. Because it made sense to them, in their own specific state of mind.
  6. rampant

    rampant LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    A very complesx question indeed and many factors have to be analysed in order to come to an answer. Perpetrators of all these incidents have had different motivations and provocations; Dunblane, Columbine, etc etc.

    One thing that can be noted from all the incidents however is that the majority of the perpertrators have been the ones on the outside of the circle as it were, loners, the quiet ones, the abused, self-harmers, the bullied, the obsessives and so on, essentially those people who are disassociated from the mainstream of society in one way or another, either by choice (their own) or rejection (by others).

    This disassociation can pervert normative social and psychological development. It prevents normal behaviour and social interaction from occuring on a regular basis, ie the normal everday situations we all go through which go along way to ameliorating the rough and tumble of human interaction.

    This disassociation in turn creates a need for validation, due to the subject feeling powerless. The question is where does this validation come from?

    If we take the case of a young woman, who was sexually abused as a child, we might find that she finds her validation (her reclaiming of power) via the use of drugs (which numb her feelings), or promiscuity (using her sexuality and sex to gain domination over men, ie. I am beauty, they all worship me [please note these are sketch examples the issues are far more complex])

    Disassociative behaviour when linked to shootings can be related to this need for power to be reclaimed. The gun is a prime symbol of control and power. Have a gun no-one will f*ck with me. This coupled with sub-cultures that romanticise pain and suffering ameliorates this persons desires. It makes it easier for them to progress through the four stages of action:
    intention, (ie the thought)
    attempt and

    The majority of us wil stop at stage 1 it will be a fleeting thought.
    Some will move to stage 2 (but normative behaviours - social culpability will make them stop at that.
    The last two stages are the keys.

    When separated from normal society, alone, or caught in a sub-culture that romanticises disfunctional acts, the perpertrator exists in an environment that makes it easier to make the decision to move on to stage 3 & 4. The brakes that we have intrinsically learned through normal human interaction have been cut, the juggernaut has begun to roll.

    Sorry i can't say much more off the top of my head, I don't have the necessary material to hand (and my knowledge is mainly confined to helping adults suffering from the long term affects of abuse) I hope it goes some way to answering your question.
  7. Rampant - thanks for that. I'm beginning to get it!
  8. Pararegtom

    Pararegtom LE Book Reviewer

  9. I'd like to offer a few thoughts.

    First the US Army is pretty large compared to other armies so any problems will be amplified due to that size; ie there will be more desertions in the US Army then the Irish Army of course.

    Second, I wonder what unit this soldier was with; Regular Army or Reserves/National Guard? Combat arms or support?

    Third, how many rotations into Iraq and Afghanistan did this soldier have?

    Fourth, I'm not sure as to the nature of the clinic--perhaps only outpatient--but should someone be asking why soldiers in a stress clinic have their weapons?
  10. All the SPAMS I saw in Iraq, be it in Camp Victory, COB Spakker and in FOB Warhorse had their gats with them wherever they were. In The DFAC, MWR, pizzahut, the PX and in the MO centre.

    I did wonder why sometime to be honest.
  11. rampant

    rampant LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    It is common practice incl. Brit.Mil. during WW2, you would be on a charge if you did not have your weapon with at all times in the forward area in case of attack, no matter what your role. Considering the entire of Iraq is the forward area and bases are regularly attacked I am not surprised.
  12. I have brought this up on other forums.... and although the main issue of the thread is probably not within the scope of this, am mentioning this as the topic has widened to the going postal phenomenon.

    Now whilst I am not saying all 'postal' type shooting ins the US are down to this - there are certainly a lot. And a lot of the school shootings too, most notably Columbine and Virginia Tech.

    The issue is the SSRI drugs that are increasingly handed out like they are Smarties and treated as though they are a panacea.

    The (buried) studies show they are little more effective than placebo on all but the most serious mental disorders, yet Doctors who (especially in the US) are little more than fronts for the big Pharm' companies give them out for mild stress and sleeping disorders.

    A brief search of the web will find they have the most horrednous side-effects and can be a potential suicidal/homicidal timebomb.

    There is a group of British Doctors trying to get them much more tightly controlled controlled and they have compiled a list of cases (30 pages) of the most sensational shootings, murders/suicides that have a strong link to SSRI medication.

    check through it... most of the 'big media' hyped shooting incidents in the US all have an SSRI link.

    That's my 2 cents worth.
  13. On one of the broadcasts (Sky?), it was put out that the soldier doing the shooting was also the Imam of the american mosque on base. Not sure if that was hushed up as haven't seen any word of that since.
  14. Command_doh

    Command_doh LE Book Reviewer

    The last time this happened to the Septics - during/around the actual GWII conflict itself, the guy who did it was a Muslim who felt he was doing the honourable thing in the face of the 'oppression of his fellows of the Umma' if I recall correctly. Rolling grenades into a Command tent or something like that...little hazy on the specifics, but a proper loon, nonetheless.

    The only thing about this that surprises me is that on both occasions they were taken into custody and not shot repeatedly.

    He had done 2-3 years in Theatre by this stage, when you consider they do 12 months each time round. Thats a long time to live in a sh1t hole IMO, even if you factor in the comforts and Disney World style facilities the Yanks have. I'm very surprised this doesn't happen more often.