Firing 308 in a 3006.

Chicken

Old-Salt
Before you read any further,this is a statement of how things are done here.Its not the correct thing to do but it as been done tens of thousands of times without incident in the Rifles mentioned below.I personally do not and would not do it nor do I allow it when supervising at the range for the reason mentioned below.

First some background.

At the latter stages of the war,the retreating Germans left tens of thousands of guns behind.In the hope that the Norwegian people would take up arms against the Russians who at the time were advancing southwards into Norway.

After the War,these guns were taken into service,chief among them was the Mauser K98.In the 1950s under the Marshall aid plan,these Rifles were modified to fire 7.62X63 (3006) by replacing the Barrel and milling a notch in the receiver ring so the longer round could be fed into the magazine.

These Rifles were slowly phased out and kept in reserve/rear gard units untill the 1980's when they were sold off for a pittance to anyone who wanted one.The local manufacture of 3006 ceased for the Military at the same time.Because every male had done his CMT and now had a shiny new AG-3 in his cupboard along with a few hundred rounds of 7.62X51 the thrifty Nogs began firing 308 in their Mauser 3006's.

It blows the case out,the bullet hits the target and everyone goes home happy untill someone dose it in a Rifle that will not handle gas leakage well such as a Tikka T3.A guy at the range lost his eye from the liquefied bolt stop and the bolt shroud gashed his face. I know of a case where a guy ruined a Merkel straight pull rifle by doing the same,I dont know if he was injured.
 
During the changeover the US Army investigated what would happen should a unit with the old .30 caliber (7.62X63) small arms be issued 7.62X51 ammo.

the weapons did NOT Blowup

as your images show the cases fireformed to an almost .45-70 configuration

Bullets hit a 200 Meter target at a 6 O'clock low by 2 feet
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I suspect that shooters insurance may invalid if firing ammunition not meant for the firearm is the reason, that said the firearms may not have been in the best condition to allow such a dramatic failure as bolt stops melting!
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Why?

Why would anybody do something that freaking stupid?
 
Can I steal that photo for BotR facebook please? :)
 
IIRC it's possible to fit an adaptor into a 30-06 chamber so you can use 308w without blowing the cases , I doubt accuracy is very impressive.
 

4(T)

LE
It blows the case out,the bullet hits the target and everyone goes home happy untill someone dose it in a Rifle that will not handle gas leakage well such as a Tikka T3.A guy at the range lost his eye from the liquefied bolt stop and the bolt shroud gashed his face. I know of a case where a guy ruined a Merkel straight pull rifle by doing the same,I dont know if he was injured.

Are you sure that there isn't more to this story?

IIRC its been found that shooting 7.62mm in .30-06 and similar "same base size" combinations (eg .303" in .410") is perfectly safe as the undersized case still gives tight gas obturation.

Any mention of handloads, perchance...?
 
Are you sure that there isn't more to this story?

IIRC its been found that shooting 7.62mm in .30-06 and similar "same base size" combinations (eg .303" in .410") is perfectly safe as the undersized case still gives tight gas obturation.

Any mention of handloads, perchance...?
Agreed. I can't see why 308 would not be obturating perfectly, given that it's got a straighter taper than .30-06 so is probably being persuaded a little into the chamber anyway.
 

tiv

War Hero
IIRC it's possible to fit an adaptor into a 30-06 chamber so you can use 308w without blowing the cases , I doubt accuracy is very impressive.
 

Chicken

Old-Salt
Are you sure that there isn't more to this story?

IIRC its been found that shooting 7.62mm in .30-06 and similar "same base size" combinations (eg .303" in .410") is perfectly safe as the undersized case still gives tight gas obturation.

Any mention of handloads, perchance...?
I am not sure what you mean by handloads?.

The guy fired factory 308 in a 3006 T3.

Some of the gas came back along the bolt raceway,melted the plastic bolt stop and blew the bolt shroud into his face.

I would hazard a guess that A vast majority of the 308 fired in 3006's here is Nato ball.Is the web and case head a bit thicker on military stuff? As I wonder if in a push feed action the case head could be positioned ahead of the bolt face but still close enough for the firing pin to strike it?

Then the case is moving back as it's flaring into the chamber and the case fails as gas is cutting the wall back towards the bolt face?

A mauser or other controlled round
feeding action would still hold the case to the bolt face by the extractor?
 

Blogg

LE
Why?

Why would anybody do something that freaking stupid?
And to think people obsess about case overall length and getting bullet jump into the throat & leade just right.

With 7.62 in a 30.06 It's not so much of a jump as a mighty leap of 12mm!
 

HE117

LE
"With 7.62 in a 30.06 It's not so much of a jump as a mighty leap of 12mm!"

Pfft - nothing! You want to see how far a Cased Telescopic Cart projectile jumps!

I'm not sure I would want to try that with a handloaded 7.62 x 51. You need a certain amount of neck tension to get the initial burn rate up otherwise there is a danger of the primer just blowing out the bullet and not igniting the powder. As long as you are using something with a decent crimp on it you are probably ok, but not a practice I could approve endorse. I have been having an intermittent problem with this using Vit N140 and CCI primers in 8mm Lebel and 7.62x57R. I keep thinking I have cured it, but it keeps happening. I have now switched to Magnum primers to see if that cures it...

That said, do you know you can fire 9mm out of a 1911? Just make sure you point the gun up in the air and shake it to get the base of the round against the breech face. It's not that reliable and inaccurate as hell (what 1911 isn't?) but most of the time it will go bang and something will come out the end of the barrel..

Precision it ain't, but there is a remarkable amount of "flex" in what some guns will fire! The old Astra "spud gun" would fire a large variety of 9mm variants from short to largo..
 
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ugly

LE
Moderator
And to think people obsess about case overall length and getting bullet jump into the throat & leade just right.

With 7.62 in a 30.06 It's not so much of a jump as a mighty leap of 12mm!
A great way to fire form brass! I make 7.5 French (or rather used to) by firing 6.5 swede in the mas 36! It wasn’t a problem and wasn’t necessary as a quick run through the dies does it! With my 7.62 X 55 I have to fire form as the smith stuffed up my chamber
 
As I wonder if in a push feed action the case head could be positioned ahead of the bolt face but still close enough for the firing pin to strike it?
No way. But in any case the different tapers should hold the 308 against the bolt head.

Must have been a flawed case - even just the web of the case will obturate enough to seal, as you see with .303 case head separations.
 
BTW .308 in .30-06 is not on the SAAMI dangerous combinations list

1576072004138.png
 

4(T)

LE

Is that the guilty round?

If so, which route did the gas stream take?

I ask, because in cases where gas has come back between case and chamber wall, the case is usually crushed/dented by the gas pressure, and usually heavily stained.

(I think someone in HSBA knows about this, having used some very old .303" brass to knock out two dozen .410 cases...)

If its come out of the case web or primer hole, then thats presumably a serious manufacturing defect in the ammo.

It also begs the question of just how safe a T3 is with any ammunition, even of the correct calibre - if this is how bad the gas venting is.
 

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