Firearms Licencing in the News again...

ugly

LE
Moderator
Like the Passport Agency? That would work sooooooooooooo well.

Any impartial agency will either require a staff of thousands, or rely on the police, heavily.
The people and department exist already, it could continue but not under police force leadership. It should have a national management board not whatever ACPO are now called.
Your own comment proves the lack of impartiality!
 
Record of use for target shooter, land authority for vermin control.
When I was changing address recently, I was asked for the same.

Flagged it up to BASC with a couple of questions:
Is this normal procedure? - not as far as they are aware.
If I don't have authority in the police area concerned will this be an issue with an open FAC? Shouldn't be (it wasn't), but lets us know if it is.

On the plus side, having provided all the paperwork, it was processed in less than 3 days

Like I said previously, they are ratcheting up the admin on shooters to make the buggeranvpce factor of owning firearms increasingly offputting for prospective new shooters.
What next, records of each detail and number of rounds shot per detail?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Its partly because of the data protection rules that clubs no longer have to hold your records but can verify them, hence most clubs require you to record your activity.
I dont do club shooting more than once a year. My job as a keeper is enough to keep the FEO happy.
Otherwise virtually every day its a shotgun and 2 or 3 rifles taken out, sometimes shots are fired!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
The people and department exist already, it could continue but not under police force leadership. It should have a national management board not whatever ACPO are now called.
Your own comment proves the lack of impartiality!
I wasn't trying to be impartial, I was being critical.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I wasn't trying to be impartial, I was being critical.
Exactly, the police should uphold the law and enforce it not make it up as they go along
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Exactly, the police should uphold the law and enforce it not make it up as they go along
But that'll destroy years of modern tradition.
"I am the law !"
 
Exactly, the police should uphold the law and enforce it not make it up as they go along
Okay, go on, you obviously have a specific bee in your bonnet, so spit it out.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Okay, go on, you obviously have a specific bee in your bonnet, so spit it out.
We have a national firearms acts (and amendments) which should be applied evenly. At the moment they are applied at the discretion of the CC and this means massive variations. The current drive to amalgamate the various firearms branches into regions unfortunately means that instead of following the best possible practises as would be expected from a service without Police interference Southern are using Hampshire as the target to aim for and this is now the proverbial race to the bottom.
The whole system of FAC's and SGC's could be overhauled but as Scalieback says there isn't the political will. A simple firearms pass book like a passport for ten years would be fine. Nothing to stop the service carrying out checks but the onus should go away from presumption of guilt (always it seems the FEO's are convinced we are seeking loopholes) to a presumption of legal obedience. Nothing to stop the police checking on fac holders, we are after all on the PNC even if it becomes a shock when you discuss it with them at an accident or incident.
It can be self funded if best practices are followed. The French system is self funding!
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Exactly, the police should uphold the law and enforce it not make it up as they go along
Stiffling a yawn.
Okay, go on, you obviously have a specific bee in your bonnet, so spit it out.
I very much doubt that it's one specific bee, but I am very interested in your above response.

I note your indifference to the complaint that some Constables make up the law to suit themselves.

Such indifference would imply that you believe the course at Hendon, (or other college,) equips individuals to enact their own legislation, or is this something that comes with experience ?

If so, does this apply to all laws or just some ?
Do they then apply to society as a whole or just niche groups ?
 
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It can be self funded if best practices are followed. The French system is self funding!
A mate lives in southern France. He keeps pistols, rifles and shotguns along with BP. He gets his GP to sign off his application and pays for that. His kids can't have a licence until they're 18. I forget the amount (93 Euros?) every time it is renewed etc. Did his hunters certificate.

There are some merits to the system, such as categorisation and many failings such as 'military' ammo calibres and so on. I personally prefer a five year renewal and my GP only getting involved if he thinks there's a problem
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
A mate lives in southern France. He keeps pistols, rifles and shotguns along with BP. He gets his GP to sign off his application and pays for that. His kids can't have a licence until they're 18. I forget the amount (93 Euros?) every time it is renewed etc. Did his hunters certificate.

There are some merits to the system, such as categorisation and many failings such as 'military' ammo calibres and so on. I personally prefer a five year renewal and my GP only getting involved if he thinks there's a problem
I'm not recommending adopting the froggy system, just pointing out that its self funded usually because the Mayor has to approve most of the paperwork and les flics are only involved at arms length.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
That said its not the worst system and the NRA would love mandatory firearms training as they would love to run it.
The worst system is in Europe at least the Irish one where the local FEO is a serving Gard and has almost absolute power. Everything from an blank firer for dog training to a deer stalking rifle with shotguns tossed in are subject to a separate license for each one, this means a separate application, fee and rigmarole to which can be added the risk of just not getting on with the appointed individual.
The saving grace is their certificate is a little credit card thing, sadly you need one for each firearm or shotgun, blank firer, dummy launcher or air weapon. I would need a suitcase to carry mine.
 
I'm not recommending adopting the froggy system, just pointing out that its self funded usually because the Mayor has to approve most of the paperwork and les flics are only involved at arms length.
I'd say 'les flics' are a bit more involved than that and all of the leg work is dealt with by the applicant. As usual, the applicant doesn't see the background work that goes on. They also inspect the security and question the applicant as well as the Mayor's office, when its open.

It's self funding in view of the fees and putting the onus on GP reports with the applicant. If that's your idea of 'self funded', count me out please.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I didn't say it was what we should adopt.
It's self funding in view of the fees and putting the onus on GP reports with the applicant. If that's your idea of 'self funded', count me out please.
However its proof that a system managed by civil servants can work.
 
I didn't say it was what we should adopt.

However its proof that a system managed by civil servants can work.
That's one way of looking at it.

They do the admin (as do civil servants and local govt employees now), they farm it out to plod to do visits and other inspections [criminal record, collators etc] (dealt with by civil servants and local govt employees generally in the UK). They marry up all of the paperwork from a third party (plod) and the applicant and issue the cert(s) at a large cost.

I'm not really sure saying 'civil servants' are the ones who do the work in that process is correct any more than they do in the UK.

Moving the whole thing 'lock, stock and barrel' from plod into an agency would be a (seemingly, I'm not convinced) better option. However, apart from political will, there is no money for the start up costs. Obviously, as soon as someone goes 'postal' the 'head' of the national firearms licensing agency will lose theirs. In which case, are we sure there won't be 'creeping regulations'?
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm thinking of applying for mine. ( get it for part of a Christmas presser, keep the dame happy) apparently the whole lots done on line. So you need everything's sitting in front of you ready to go.
I'll get round to it later in the week, I can't see me using a shotgun and I'm not keen on getting cold and wet. . So it looks like target shooting.

This all started with an interest in old air pistols and then the problems started
 
I'm thinking of applying for mine. ( get it for part of a Christmas presser, keep the dame happy) apparently the whole lots done on line. So you need everything's sitting in front of you ready to go.
I'll get round to it later in the week, I can't see me using a shotgun and I'm not keen on getting cold and wet. . So it looks like target shooting.

This all started with an interest in old air pistols and then the problems started
There’s a bit out there. Similar to GB, but not the same:
Firearms
Applying for a firearms license in Northern Ireland | nidirect
Online Application Information
 

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