Firearms Licencing in the News again...

ugly

LE
Moderator
Frankly if it takes plod more than 90 mins for a renewal then they are inefficient
90 mins and a couple photos and you are done for five years.
Scali, you and I both agree with lots of what 4T has written and its the heavy hand of the law in the form of former inspectors arse kissing the CC to keep an empire where they have real control over peoples livelihoods and hobbies which is the problem in my opinion. The law is the law, which is why Mr Ash was my favourite. To the letter was his apparent view. Now if only that extended across the board I suspect most shooters would be happy!
I'm not going to get into cost arguments, frankly its apparently all about public safety in which case the public should pay for the policing. We shooters already pay for our sport and our own security. The problem being the police would rather issue a crime number for most stuff than actually investigate or spend any money away from core targets set by buzzword bingo meetings of target audience committees!
 
I think if it takes you more than 90 mins inc coffee stops to fill in an FAC application then maybe you shouldnt be granted one.
90 mins and a couple photos and you are done for five years.
Very true. It took me less time than that, including driving to a mate's house to get him to sign the referee bit.
 
Frankly if it takes plod more than 90 mins for a renewal then they are inefficient
On or about for a FEO including travel. Depends on what they’ve put down, but a straightforward renewal without a FEO visit should be entered on the system and approved in about 20 minutes if that.

However, not all renewals or grants or variations are ‘straightforward’.
Scali, you and I both agree with lots of what 4T has written and its the heavy hand of the law in the form of former inspectors arse kissing the CC to keep an empire where they have real control over peoples livelihoods and hobbies which is the problem in my opinion.
Yep. But as above, it all depends on what is submitted. Or what happens, is brought to attention etc.
The law is the law, which is why Mr Ash was my favourite. To the letter was his apparent view. Now if only that extended across the board I suspect most shooters would be happy!
I knew Rodney very well. Let’s just say we disagree on what some of his views were. He was a big one on your bonfire nights.
I'm not going to get into cost arguments, frankly its apparently all about public safety in which case the public should pay for the policing.
David Penn’s argument. They already do, so why should they pay to Police someone’s hobby?
We shooters already pay for our sport and our own security. The problem being the police would rather issue a crime number for most stuff than actually investigate or spend any money away from core targets set by buzzword bingo meetings of target audience committees!
Couldn’t agree more but the public shouldn’t have to pay more for policing just because I want to go stalking with a rifle.

As I said, it needs a ‘root and branch’ review. What is trying to be achieved, how do you achieve it and a ‘RBC’ on it all. Having ‘no guns’ doesn’t work. Neither apparently does ‘everyone having guns’ so there’s a middle ground and whilst far from perfect, it generally stops the nutters.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
The law is the law, which is why Mr Ash was my favourite. To the letter was his apparent view. Now if only that extended across the board I suspect most shooters would be happy!
I know an RFD under the jurisdiction of another force where Plod complained to him that he "was following the letter of the law, but not the spirit" !
WTF do they want ?

Apart from being the only civvies permitted firearms of course.
 
Sorry to hi-jack thread but it seemed on the same level.
Having now moved from Afghanistan after 5 years to the Falklands for work i have discovered that down here you can have almost any weapon as long as its not automatic....
I was down there 3 years ago. Met up with the police a number of times (I was doing the EOD bit) Their boss said that he would grant a FAC for anything, as there was no licensing laws. I asked "So, if wanted a Gimpy?" He said "Yes".
 
David Penn’s argument. They already do, so why should they pay to Police someone’s hobby?
.

Because the (over-complex, unnecessarily regulatory, inefficiently expensive) policing requirement is imposed by the state.

In other areas of policing, the state imposes a regulation and then pays for its enforcement out of general taxation (or borrowing, in our current feckless budgetary system).
 
Because the (over-complex, unnecessarily regulatory, inefficiently expensive) policing requirement is imposed by the state.
The state impose lots of regulations that require somebody to pay for it separately to what they already pay in tax, rates etc.
In other areas of policing, the state imposes a regulation and then pays for its enforcement out of general taxation (or borrowing, in our current feckless budgetary system).
And in lots of areas they put an additional price on it, such as policing football matches.
 
The state impose lots of regulations that require somebody to pay for it separately to what they already pay in tax, rates etc.

And in lots of areas they put an additional price on it, such as policing football matches.



Fine. How about requiring people to pay for an alcohol license* before they go for a night out? I'm sure all the D&D policing doesn't come cheap, and its not right that we "the taxpayers" should pay for someone else's hobby, etc.

*(referees, photo, statement of intent, list of establishments to be visited, etc all required of course)


Ditto recreational drug usage.

Ditto recreational use of a motor vehicle.

Shooting sports are targetted for cash because they are the target of political agendas (and I absolutely include the Police leadership in that), and their membership are paradoxically both scrupulously law-abiding and yet vilified by MSM - thus effectively without any leverage to resist.
 
Fine. How about requiring people to pay for an alcohol license* before they go for a night out? I'm sure all the D&D policing doesn't come cheap, and its not right that we "the taxpayers" should pay for someone else's hobby, etc.
Fine by me. But then where is the Parliamentery will for that? Let alone public will? You do realise about licensed premises etc?
*(referees, photo, statement of intent, list of establishments to be visited, etc all required of course)
Something like a multiple licence holder for pubs? Okay ....
Ditto recreational drug usage.
Is that lawful use? Or ignored?
Ditto recreational use of a motor vehicle.
You don’t pay for your licence and have a photo on it?
Shooting sports are targetted for cash because they are the target of political agendas (and I absolutely include the Police leadership in that), and their membership are paradoxically both scrupulously law-abiding and yet vilified by MSM - thus effectively without any leverage to resist.
Which all goes back to the points I reiterate yet again, ‘What do they want to achieve?’ ‘How do you do it?’ ‘What are the RBCs?’

You know as well as I do that there is no political will to do anything until the wheel comes off. It needs a proper review. Luckily, after Bird there was an ACC in charge who knew what he was doing. It is unlikely to be the case next time.

So carry on paying your subs to organisations that do little to make effective changes and keep moaning on here and elsewhere to no avail. Meanwhile, the anti’s keep pushing their agenda and shooters bemoan their lot. As it was, as it is, as it always will be.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
So carry on paying your subs to organisations that do little to make effective changes and keep moaning on here and elsewhere to no avail. Meanwhile, the anti’s keep pushing their agenda and shooters bemoan their lot. As it was, as it is, as it always will be.
sad but true although
So carry on paying your subs to organisations that do little apart from make money and make your sport more difficult to take part in
That seems to be the case
 
sad but true although
Yep. They need to put something properly together. An 'anti' Blackwell report. But then, there's so much infighting they'll never agree.
That seems to be the case
Self serving 'paper hats'? It'd be nice if they actually tried to work together
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Interestingly the grauniad doesn't seem to espouse a view about the firearms just the ultra right wing MP's. Typical politics of envy by the paper this time mixed in with fear. If the Police aren't equipped to deal with it then equip them.
Also more people murdered in Ulster with other weapons than .50 calibre rifles which I doubt the lefties were upset about when it happened. Heaven forbid someone might have a gun!
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Had the Crown forces used a fifty to kill a terr over the water there's at least one lefty who'd have spat the dummy over his friends being targetted with one.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer

ugly

LE
Moderator

ugly

LE
Moderator
Surely a collection of off ticket guns will remain off ticket as the old bill shouldn't know they even exist?
 
Surely a collection of off ticket guns will remain off ticket as the old bill shouldn't know they even exist?
Yep, but if the criteria for what constitutes an antique changes, their ‘value’ is probably worthless as you’re unlikely to get any money for them lawfully.
 

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