Firearms Licence

Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by lorica, Jan 13, 2012.

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  1. I am not sure if this is in the correct place to post, however I need advice on a matter concerning a firearm. My employer recently asked me to supply a reference for his firearm renewal licence which I was happy to do. However, he suddenly came into my office carrying several rifles (ten in total) which he had been given by an elderly neighbour. None of these are on his current licence and I am not sure exactly what type they are, however from the brief look I had they were early Enfield rifles (No. five) and the rest Martini Henry and a mix of Martini-Metford & Martini-Enfield, he also has the ammuntion for the rifles and all are in full working order. Now, if I do give him a reference and he does a Derek Bird would I be in trouble? Also, would I be in trouble if I signed the reference and knew he had them?

    So should I A) refuse to sign B) sign anyway C) have a word with Mr Plod as this is worrying me.

  2. i would phone mr plod anon and ask the hypethetical question..
    then think about what you want to do..
    dont forget to withold your number as well..
  3. If he has an ounce of sense, he should immediately pace the firearms with an RFD for safekeeping.

    Enthusiasm for old weapons is not necessarily a sign of a budding pathological serial killer (at least i haven't started yet...), but playing fast and loose with the licensing laws is not the best way to start out. If a neighbour has given him a weapons collection, he has probably just got carried away with the cornucopia of collectible guns. Imagine a vintage motor cycle enthusiast who gets given several Vincents and boxes of parts. I expect he is not a threat to anyone, but just being over-eager and naive.

    Contacting plod might get him jailed for 5 years. Best to tell him straight up that you won't sign his FAC application unless he demonstrates suitable credibility - ie place the guns with an RFD for now.

    Whereabouts are you/the bloke with the rifles? Might help to have an RFD or gun club secretary ring him up and let him know how silly he is being.
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Agree with the above.

    I imagine he has just got a little carried away. Just ask him shouldn’t they be stored with a RFD for the time being? And take your que from his reply.
  5. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    For the firearms illiterate - RFD is a Registered Firearms Dealer. Your boss will know the local one if he's a regular shooter
  6. What he said.

    Also if he gives them the plod he will never see them again as they will be destroyed where as a RFD may be able to legalize them .
  7. Lorica,

    Several Arrsers - including me - are registered firearms dealers. If your employer needs some help/advice, feel free to PM me and I'll see if I know someone in your area.

    Might be a good idea to ask him under what circumstances the neighbour gave the weapons: (1) are they "on license", or "off license". If they are "off licence" (ie are not on a current FAC) then they will have to go to an RFD as an "anonymous hand-in". This will bring them onto the legal register, from where they can be legally transferred onto an FAC. (2) Is the owner still alive, or have the weapons come from a deceased estate? Your employer should be aware that, if any of the guns are on the legal register, the police will eventually find out that they have been transferred and will want to know why they weren't informed at the time. If they come from a deceased estate, the cops will be around knocking on the door fairly soon.

    As your employer is applying for an FAC, I assume that he has been a member of a club for at least six month to a year, and has passed that club's probationary process - a pre-requirement of the police for an FAC for target rifles. This being the case, you should feel assured that the guy is thought by his peers to be "safe" - if a bit silly....
  8. He is not a collector, nor a enthusiast he just has had them for three years under his bed. My dilema, is that everyone knows that I now know he has them, hence the question I asked. If I say nothing and it gets out, goodbye to my licence and perhaps my liberty.
  9. Under his bed!

    He will I am sure have a problem if he has had then for three years and not included them on the firearms certificate. A question for the experts (who are RFDs) Isn't lodging them with a RFD going to flush this problem into the open?
  10. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    If they're handed in by an "anonymous" donor the RFD can register them and they can be legalised. I've also dealt with this after my father died. We found his hunting rifle in a cupboard and I arranged for my local dealer to collect it. It's now legally held by me.

    Lorica - if he's had these under his bed for 3 years and he's just now showing them to you (and bringing them into the office) I suggest you take a much tougher line with him. Those aren't the actions of a responsible shooter. I suggest you give him an ultimatum that he gets them into the hands of someone entitled to hold them pretty sharpish - today or tomorrow - or you'll report him to plod. You imply you hold a licence - an FAC? As you say, if plod gets hold of him and you've done nothing that'll be gone, never to return.
  11. No. Perhaps the only really sane part of the firearms law. The "hand in" system was designed to soak up the zillions of unlicensed weapons floating around after WW1 and WW2. Hence:

    - an RFD does not have to ascertain the identity of someone handing a weapon in, or whether or not they have a licence;

    - having received a "hand-in", the RFD is advised (only) to inform the Police.

    In practice, an RFD will advice the Police immediately if a weapon is suspicious and might have been used in a crime. Otherwise the weapon is entered into the RFD register as an anonymous hand-in, and the Police will see this during a routine register check once or twice a year. Once the weapon is on the register, it can be sold on or transferred, assuming that it is in proof.

    Most honest RFDs will, for example, take in a rifle or pistol found in grandad's attic, legalise it, and then pass any sale proceeds back to the finder. Many hand-ins have traditionally come from pistols and rifles owned long before the current licensing regime - e.g. some old boy's Webley from army days. Often these weapons can still be quite valuable, so a decent RFD will ensure that the widow or whoever gets something back.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Thanks 4(T) a very succinct answer, appreciated.
  13. Thanks for the responses so far, I am sure you can see the prediciment I am in? Like I said, I was suprised when he said they had been there (not locked away) for three years complete with the ammunition/powder for the guns which to me is shocking and totally unacceptable. He even wanted to have a go at firing them to see if they still work.

    I just had an chat with the firearms officer and without mentioning anything in detail, he said if i knew he had them and didnt say anything and it came out then I could say goodbye to my life for a few years, no excuse. He said even after all this time, and he didn`t report them or hand them over to a RFD then he is holding them illegally and would go down for a long stretch. No excuse really, plus it would be on my concience.
  14. Bump, so what happened?