Fingerprinting for Visitors to UK

#1
Visitors to UK will have their fingerprints taken under new measures to prevent identity swapping, amongst other measures.

Japan is apparently, also doing the same.

Reports suggest as many as 500 people have been caught swapping identities in the UK, so far.

At a time when people believe that visitors are abusing human rights provisions, are current measures going too far, or justified?
 
#2
walter_mitless said:
At a time when people believe that visitors are abusing human rights provisions, are current measures going too far, or justified?
what people would that be again? and what human rights? and link please? ahh, actually forget it, I cant be arrsed.
 
#3
walter_mitless said:
Visitors to UK will have their fingerprints taken under new measures to prevent identity swapping, amongst other measures.

Japan is apparently, also doing the same.

Reports suggest as many as 500 people have been caught swapping identities in the UK, so far.

At a time when people believe that visitors are abusing human rights provisions, are current measures going too far, or justified?
These are visitors, not UK citizens, if they choose to come then they can abise by whatever immigration controls we impose or not bother to come.
At first glance I would have said wonderful, the more controls we have over who visits this country then abuses the privlidge the better.
However all these new initiatives and clever ideas mean absolutely sod all when Immigration are busy sending themselves memo's not to bother deporting various groups of illegals.
Lots of information gathering, not much of it the rightinformation and nothing constructive done with it anyway.
We have plenty of rules and regulations to deal with people in the country who shouldn't be, its just we dont bother to enforce them. Whats the point of more new systems when we ignore perfectly functionable existing ones?
 
#4
Japan started fingerprinting foriegn visitors on 20 November,2007.

The Americans have been doing this with each index finger for the last 4 years and will be introducing all 10 fingerprints being taken on a rolling basis from now.

A good idea in theory.

If applied to UK citizens it may stop wanted criminals leaving the country as has happened.The civil rights implications of this could be sinister,though especially in light of some of the UK government's surveillence culture with more CCTV than an other country,DNA collection sometimes by stealth and the impending ID card encompassing more information than any other country's ID card scheme so far.
 
#5
Problem is, all of these controls can be used against citizens - not just criminals. As a matter of course, criminals do seem to find a way around them. The arguement I always hear is, well if you're not doing anything wrong, no reason to object. But that is not the point. What if you are their political enemy? All kinds of information can and will be used against you - perhaps justly, perhaps not - to destroy you. And God forbid if the time comes we must actively rebel - will be neigh impossible as they will have us in an iron grip.

The government exists to serve us, not vice-versa. To give it such power of coercion is dangerous.
 
#6
Le_addeur_noir said:
Japan started fingerprinting foriegn visitors on 20 November,2007.

The Americans have been doing this with each index finger for the last 4 years and will be introducing all 10 fingerprints being taken on a rolling basis from now.

A good idea in theory.

If applied to UK citizens it may stop wanted criminals leaving the country as has happened.The civil rights implications of this could be sinister,though especially in light of some of the UK government's surveillence culture with more CCTV than an other country,DNA collection sometimes by stealth and the impending ID card encompassing more information than any other country's ID card scheme so far.
Problem !!! It takes about ten minutes for a check to come back from the LIVESCAN database (as the prints have to be checked by a human, computers are not up to the job) and thats just for the two or three thousand people who get nicked every day, I dont think the system would cope with a 747 load a minute, even with massive investment, so its not going to stop people coming in or out, good intelligence tool though.

Trotsky
 
#7
walter_mitless said:
Visitors to UK will have their fingerprints taken under new measures to prevent identity swapping, amongst other measures.

Japan is apparently, also doing the same.

Reports suggest as many as 500 people have been caught swapping identities in the UK, so far.

At a time when people believe that visitors are abusing human rights provisions, are current measures going too far, or justified?
At last our government is doing something right ,When i go to other countries i have to have my photo taken so taking visitors fingerprints will have some control on visitors entering our country
 
#8
sasa said:
At last our government is doing something right ,When i go to other countries i have to have my photo taken so taking visitors fingerprints will have some control on visitors entering our country

Chubb, they take your photo because the various authorities cant quite believe youre a human being. Your mug shot goes onto their pig board.
 
#9
This simply punishes the majority of visitors who come to UK and leave every year. Has the government implimented a successful database in the past 10 years (aside from those that are financially motivated) - No. What will it do with the fingerprints of all those who legitimately apply to visit our country and leave before their visa has expired.

Other proposals are also quite sinister - Family being visited will have to supply a bond, and the visa duration has reduced from 1 year to 6 months and it is now suggested 3 months will be the only duration available, on top of a 4 fold increase in cost of obtaining the visa from the local consulate!

I dont believe this measure will reduce in any way the fiddles on the system, moreover it is more likely to result in us requiring visas when we go abroad, outside of the EU.
 
#10
They do this in the US, I had no objections to my finger prints being taken when I went to live there, Im glad they are considering it for the UK.
 
#11
taken further it would be better to use ID Card and fingerprints when opening a Bank account, Claiming benefits to prevent fraudulent claims and multiple benefit frauds sometime perpetrated by Immigrant families particularly Romas as well as our home grown variety along with catching out previously deported people sneaking back in, catching out criminals on the run, to use Government and Council services you must show ID and Fingerprints similar to the US Social security number system.

as it is the Current ID card scheme is just a way of contolling Law abiding people
 
#13
The strict controls imposed on us by the banks are Gordons contribution to the "war on terror", and prevent us having easy access to our cash and controlling our bank accounts. These measures have little to do with the prevention of terrorist fund raising, look at those organisations which operate in this country, raising funds for organisations overseas with little control.

As I write this we have a Labour Cabinet Minister who has allegedly set up an unregistered company for the purposes of fund raising (Money Laundering as it is referred to under law) and all this done without any interest from the police so far.

The vast majority of visa visitors to this country do not overstay, and will be being punished for the actions of the few. Furthermore, I do not think that having face prints and fingerprints will reduce the numbers of those people who do overstay their visa. I view this is another example of heavy handed state interference.
 
#14
Trotsky said:
Problem !!! It takes about ten minutes for a check to come back from the LIVESCAN database (as the prints have to be checked by a human, computers are not up to the job) and thats just for the two or three thousand people who get nicked every day, I dont think the system would cope with a 747 load a minute, even with massive investment, so its not going to stop people coming in or out, good intelligence tool though.

Trotsky
Wrong.
There are a number of searches you can do with Livescan. Main one is a LiveID-Nonverified. This isn't checked by a person and normally produces a result within 5/10 minutes. LiveID-Verified is sent to a Finger Print Bureau at the Force HQ for verification, these only open working hours (except for a few) so aren't used much. The company I currently work for is bidding for this contract and the equipment we have has the capacity to have this added no problem.

The ammount of searches that go through each day there is no way that they can be verified by a person.
 
#15
This is probably the most useful immigration initiative that this useless administration has introduced in it's ten wasted years.
Immigration quickchecks machines will return results on a fingerprint scan in about three minutes. They are also much more portable and quicker than Police livescan machines.
Fingerprinting all visa applicants means that an Immigration Officer dealing with a foreign national who has 'lost' all his documentation and who claims to be a certain identity and unremovable nationality can blow the story out of the water in minutes.
 
#16
frenchperson said:
No one is illegal. Much enlightenment for all seeking reasoned comment and a fair approach here: http://www.noii.org.uk/
Yes they are. Government passes the laws, if they don't come into the country in the correct legal fashion but break the law then that's pretty much the definition of an illegal immigrant. Now I know that the new PC name is undocumented immigrant or some other hazy term like that to try and get away from the awfully negative illegal/breaking the law part but I couldn't give a monkeys. As for that site I wont bother replying since I just can't take it seriously. Peddling terms like 'immigrant prisons' is bad enough, hijacking the legacy of the hundreds of thousands of genuine political prisoners who were repressed and killed in Stalinist Russia by actively trying to compare and make these 'immigrant prisons' equal to the Gulag archipelago is quite frankly just in incredibly bad taste.

Edit: I forgot to ask but since this is an online environment and I don't really know you, are you actually French or is it just a screen name?
 
#17
frenchperson said:
No one is illegal.

Much enlightenment for all seeking reasoned comment and a fair approach here:

http://www.noii.org.uk/
Oh god help us, you're back. I was living happily under the impression you were dead.

But as for finger prints why can't they be checked by computer? My data centre has been using fingerprint recognition for entry since 2002. Surely computers are up to the job and where there is a question mark a double check by a human can then be done?
 
#18
Cow said:
Trotsky said:
Problem !!! It takes about ten minutes for a check to come back from the LIVESCAN database (as the prints have to be checked by a human, computers are not up to the job) and thats just for the two or three thousand people who get nicked every day, I dont think the system would cope with a 747 load a minute, even with massive investment, so its not going to stop people coming in or out, good intelligence tool though.

Trotsky
Wrong.
There are a number of searches you can do with Livescan. Main one is a LiveID-Nonverified. This isn't checked by a person and normally produces a result within 5/10 minutes. LiveID-Verified is sent to a Finger Print Bureau at the Force HQ for verification, these only open working hours (except for a few) so aren't used much. The company I currently work for is bidding for this contract and the equipment we have has the capacity to have this added no problem.

The ammount of searches that go through each day there is no way that they can be verified by a person.
Double wrong, the MPS fingerprints office is a 24/7 operation and I am told all prints are checked by a human (even if they are not a qualified expert) verifed is re checked by an expert. the main point is the time it takes for the results to come back 10 + minutes in my experience nearer 20 during the day and only five minutes at 0300 on a wet febuary wednesday, unless you have just let the cat out of the bag and there are due to be redundices at SO3?

Trotsky
 
#19
I work for IDENT1, we provide Livescan, trust me, the Met do not check LiveIDs. Once the form is submitted as a TP form then it will be checked by a FPO, this can happen anywhere between an hour and a few days after a form has been sent off.

I expect the way the Immigration searches would work is similar to the Lantern units, where the index fingers are searched and if then they're not found then a full set of prints taken. Time consuming if as you say, a 747 turns up full of 'em.
 
#20
No one is illegal. Even you reading this and smouldering away, wound up to fcuk by the Daily Mail and struggling with your intolerant outlook, unable to cope with your anger and your sh1tty attitude towards innocent foreigners - fellow men, women and children - potential friends who share this planet. Yes, you you pr1ck!! Even YOU are not illegal, you sad excuse for a human being.

Here's that link again:

www.noii.org.uk
 

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