Fighter pilot aces

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by Birdy, Apr 22, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Just came across this site. I don't know if anyone would find it interesting but scroll down the page and you'll find lists of Fighter pilot aces from different countries.
  2. Needs a lot more work and research . I gave up reading after some of those errors.

    Best references to aces are probably Crawfords 'Biplane aces' available on the web , I can never remember the URL.
  3. I agree PTP - it is obviously a labour of love but there is a little too much of the "bloody, lifeless form inside the burning cockpit of his winged tomb" type prose for my taste!
  4. Howdy,
    joe here from Couldn't help but notice a couple claims that strike me as odd.
    One - Errors? Like what? You must have followed a link to another site. If not, please enlighten me. More research? You have no idea how many books and files and fax's and photo copies I have! Shit, just recently I helped a researcher from the US air force prove Archie Harrington was an actual American Ace. In fact, I do this shit all the time. I'm contacted by documentary filmers, historians and other assorted professionals quite often as well. When new info becomes available, I post it. Some people may not like what they see but that's not my problem.
    Two - "bloody, lifeless form inside the burning cockpit of his winged tomb" type prose for my taste!"
    Where are these "prose" ??
    I post mostly Quotes. Newspapers, books etc. I almost never actually write anything myself. Some people contribute articles but there aren't too many. Once again, i think someone followed an off-site link. I'm not the "bloody, lifeless form inside the burning cockpit of his winged tomb" kind of guy. I only care about the facts.

    Once again, I invite anyone to point out any errors that they find (on MY site). One thing to keep in mind though, the English Aces page is not finished so many names are missing

    and thars my rebuttal ;^)

    Have a good'n

    Joe out
  5. Hey Joe,

    As a former aviation Marine, and the son of a WW11 bomber pilot, I enjoyed your site. I did find one error though:
    In the "bombers" section, you mentioned the Japanese carrier Soryu as the first "real" carrier. The worlds first ship designed from the keel up to be a carrier was the Hosho, built in 1922, and was one of the only Japanese carriers to survive the war.

    And as long as I'm picking nits: Gregory Boyingtons 28 victory claim is said to be unofficial, as four of the planes he claimed were destroyed on the ground during a fighter sweep. I've heard the navy has never officially recognised them. Since he has the MOH, these little details are often downplayed.
  6. One guy right at the bottom of the British Aces column deserves to be highlighted. Stanley Vincent was a Group Captain commanding one of the Battle of Britain stations and flew occasional sorties shooting down five German aircraft and winning the DFC. However, what makes his feat remarkable is that he had also shot down a couple of the Hun in the Great War, being the only Brit to down aircraft in both World Wars. To still have the reactions to control a modern monoplane fighter let alone shoot down men half his age is an outstanding achievement. He later became an Air Vice Marshall and commanded the aircraft attached to Bill Slim's 14th Army.

    There were a few Germans who achieved the same feat, most prominantly Theodor Osterkamp who was an ace in both wars winning both the Pour le Merite and Knight's Cross and Maj Dr Ferdinand Mix who commanded the Richtofen Squadren in the early stages of the War and added to his three kills in WW1. There are a couple of others and I'd be interested if anyone has the details.
  7. No Mention of Goddy Goodson, 4th Fighter Group USAAF
    Over 20 confirmed Kills in the ETO if I recall
  8. Howdy Boys,
    Nice find! I had to check out the info on the Carrier and it seems Hosho was the first to be completed although not the first to be commissioned and started. I have added a little note to the short piece on the bomber page 2. I will point out however, like I mentioned in my first post, that I quote many sources and that was no exception. The paragraph with the miss-info is from the release accompanying the painting "Battleship Row" by Stan Stokes. I know nothing about ships and would probably never have caught that on my own. Thanks.
    About Pappy, yes, there is some question about his kill claims. Since he only got paid for 2 kills while with the Tigers there had been speculation that the other 4 were ground kills. This has been a question for some years but Pappy himself claimed they were NOT ground kills. The answer will never be known but when I get to his page I will mention all that. At this time though, he is generally credited with 28 and that's what I posted. Maybe I should put it as 28 – 24.
    Someone else has added a few things too – lets see, there are 3 pages with Goody Goodson on them. Not to mention this one - Not sure how you missed it. There's links from the American and Canadian pages.
    As for the last post, if you go to the German page and search for "ww1" you will find a number of Germans who scored in both wars.

    Now a brief explanation – as I am currently living in Ottawa Canada, I have been primarily working on Canadian aces at this point. The capital region is full of official documentation and I want to get the Canadians out of the way before I move back to the states. If you Check out -
    You will see that I'm almost done. You might also notice that as I get to each name and go over the info more closely, many of these guys get bumped around. Take Ross Gray, "Officially" credited with 10 kills. But wait, seems only 2 were in the air. What do I do? I bump him down to 2 with 8 OTG. Damn the officials!
    Anyway, haven’t had the opportunity to go over all the aces from all the countries yet, but I will eventually get to them. I have relatives contact me regularly with new and more accurate info on their kin, from birthdays to names that were recorded wrong. In any event, if I were you, when it comes to Canadian aces, you would be wise to regard MY info as more accurate that the "official" version when they do not match.
    BUT one last thing, I quote extensively from period newspapers. THAT info can be wrong and it is NOT where I get my facts from – although it helps me track down stuff sometimes.
    That being said, I encourage everyone to point out any mistakes that they find. I do not want to propagate bullshit right ??

    Thanks again,

    Joe out

    BTW, it's Hakans bi-plane aces. Awsum site but you wont find most ww2 aces there. only very early stuff. hey, its biplane aces after all