Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Dec 14, 2006.
The heart of the site is the forum area, including:
Well, that's the word from Lagos oooooops London.
List of priorities:
1. Caving into blackmail from a undemocratic, autocratic, royal dictatorship.
2. Allowing the British legal system to 'run it's course'.
3. Blah blah.
Does the UK actually have a democracy?
Playing devils advocate for a moment, would you rather they said no to it now, or produced a report, at tax payers expense, which resulted in the same outcome?
Also - just because business here does not run along the lines of back-handers and gifts doesn't mean other parts of the world do things the same way. The Saudis have actually been V squeaky clean on Typhoon - might have been grubby in the past, but toeing the line these days - this has been one of the sticking points on this - a rather long time to come to light.
Playing the realist for a moment, why has the taxpayer already had to cough up so much for an 'enquiry' to end like this?
So it's ok that British companies do so in order to get orders. Were the SFO investigating arabs or British people who set up slush funds to facilitate the gaining of orders.
On Five Live ( and just reiterated on News at 6) they said that Goldsmiths statement gave an intelligence reason for dropping the investigation, and discussed the possibility that the Saudis were going to withdraw their support to British Intelligence officers in the area.
Are we to kow tow to foreign governments in this way.
And I'm not going to mention the possibility of this government bowing and scraping to nice middle class possible faudsters
That is how the real world works, has for a very long time and will no doubt continue to do so.
The only surprising thing here was that nobody stepped in to kill this pointless nonsense before now. Perhaps in best Nu-Labour traditions they hoped it would just go away if they ignored it for long enough.
What would you rather the government did?
It is utterly dispicable to beak the law by giving money in return for a bit of paper saying Your a Lord, or a knight, but "the way of the world" when breaking the law for pecunary gain for both the company and oneself.
Here is a prima facae reason to give the government one and yet posters - so ready to speak out in the cash for peerages row - keep schtumm.
I wonder why
Why should BAe not bribe Arabs or other people if it done overseas and is the local 'custom' and wins a contract? Why should UK Plc loose out just so our tarnished leader can claim that Britain has the most ethical business people in the world?
I suggest that you have a little look at Africa and the effect of pretending that the world is a lovely place that respects fair play: China is bribing its way across the continent and as a result getting huge amounts of business and influence: all to the detriment of the 'West'.
Little 'liberals' (i.e. fascist left wingers) moan about global warming and how responsible they are because they cycle to work (ignoring the carbon cost of their little trips to Provence, Tuscany and the alpine ski resorts), while at the same time China is building a new coal-fired power station every week, and along with Russia is happily creating some of the most toxic and polluted areas in the world. And the effect of commuting daily by plane from Monaco to London compared with China? Zero. Does not even register.
Our friendly EU neighbours are at it. In rough order of (decending) criminality: France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Germany. The new members do not appear on my list yet as their levels of corruption are contained mainly within their own borders and are very primitive compared to the frog and eyetie scams.
So back to the topic: bugger the rest of the world, lets look after the UK (for once). I would rather a thousand frenchmen became unemployed (or better yet die from their syphillis) than one British Subject.
Dread you are wrong, so very wrong...The Chinese are building a coal fired power station every four days, not every week. But only until 2012, so that's all right then.
So remember folks, it's still crucial that we all unplug our mobiles when they are charged, otherwise we are all doomed.
Otherwise Dread, spot on mate.
Dread, a rant I entirely agree with. Must be this Hungarian air you and I breath
In that case, we may as well torture people in camps elsewhere in the world because America and the rest of the world do it, we might as well just use car bombs against El Sadrs lot because they are doing the same. This is not aboout labour - who are at least complicit in the cover up, it is about taking the moral high ground when we talk about the French or Italians. As of right now they can point to us and say that we are just as bad as them - and at least they prosecute their scumbags sometimes.
If we can do it with the arabs, what is to stop us doing it internally, and for things other than selling. Put a little money the policemens way in order to get them to spend a little more time round a companies warehouses, give a little money to union reps to ignore shortfalls, or indeed to Health and Safety - after all, its all bollox isn't it.
Most of all it is about doing the right thing - If it is all right for one set of people not to follow the law, why should anyone else
None of this was a problem until the present Government made it so by passing self satisfied legislation in 2003 having bowed to pressure from the International campaigns against corruption and the arms trade.
All well and good. Corruption is not healthy even though it is a way of life in many parts of the world. But you must have bilateral agreements and understandings between states to fight it for as Dread has correctly observed rabid national self interest starts at Calais. Always going to be on a loser going it alone.
So, having got the law in place there was, and still is, no clear Government policy even within the UK! Yet officials (the "Anti-Corruption Czar?") were allowed to go off on ridiculous international frolics to show how useful and what good value for money they are and to hell with the wider interests of UK plc
All they did was make themselves and the Government look even more like stupid clods. How the French must have laughed.
What naive peasants could possibly expect that the Royalty of the House of Saud would just stand still and allow itself be turned over by Inspector Knacker of ze Yard? Did they expect there to be no consequences or maybeee you just not theeenk? Muwahahahaha stupid English, we vomit all over your precious fighter deal!!
What a farce.
And another thing.
Now we have backed down on this one - how many other times are Saudis going to threaten our Intelligence gathering capability when they want something. And what is to stop them threatening to cancel the deal in the future - after all the spares deal is worth a billion or so - whilst the arabs can stand the loss of buying new in a few years time.
And whats to stop the French offering a huge bung to get the Saudis to welch on the deal they have just signed and go with Rafeale after all
Separate names with a comma.