Field Medics Help Needed

#1
Medics I need help ( :) )

As you may be aware I am in the process of designing Battlevests, and am now at the Sample stage, but the business must go on.

One of the next projects is to design a Medic Vest, for use in operational conditions, I need to know what type of pouches you would requie, remember this vest is designed for medics and as such won't be supplied to "un medical" forces.

How many Ammo pouches do you require?

What other type of Pouches do you require?

Is there any special pouches that could be included that would make your life easier?

Would a "folding" stretcher be useful if it was included?

Do you require any special markings?

Any other information that you feel that maybe usefull to me?

Many thanks and best regards
Tango34
 
#2
You'l end up chasing your tail trying to make a vest that will meet all medics needs. The role changes dramaticaly and if you scour other manufacturers sites youl see a whole pletheror of "medics vest's".

Markety leaders in the US currently are opting for a modular system that you can add or remove pouches role dependant. This would be a far more cost effective solution as you could market a base vest that different specialists tailor to their needs and can replace pouches when damaged rather than the whole vest.

Folding stretchers or, a usable collapsable system are very much a golden goose. Many "Specialist" medical units have a requirement for a light weight space saving stretcher, squaddie proof and quick to use. When you make it, theyl fly of the shelves. Be carefull though as there are systems on the market that over complicate the process. One such stretcher is a day sack that carries "all your med kit" integrally. This suffers immensly from trying to be all things to all men. On the other hand a ponch stretcher doesnt quite cut the mustard for patient comfort.
 
#3
There is absolutely no danger whatsoever of me putting a stretcher in my webbing! 8O
 
#5
If he can make one that transports itself, re-equips itself and when needed it turns into a pizza and a six pack.....mark me up for ten of them.....until then I'll stick with the ambulance for carrying kit
 
#6
From Tango's post-count I reckon this is kosher.

I don't know that a specialist "medic vest" would actually be possible. Medics tend to have their own preferred way of breaking down the modules and, in any case, tend to have them slung on the tent pole or laid out next to them rather than stuffed into pockets and pouches. When it's so urgent that you don't have time to open a trauma pack, the best thing you can do is slap on a FFD and run like fcuk.

I would be tempted to say that - shy of anything else - ditching a couple of chest mag pouches for a single, larger pouch into which a small emergency aid pack could be stuffed would be a good start. But then you'd lose the interest of the RMA, who's a soldier like his mates and isn't going to want to have half the ammo capacity of everyone else!

If you want to make something for the specialist medic, then a medical daysack would be a useful start. Take a regular day sack and add to its front a full-length additional storage space. A double zip running all the way along the top and bottom and one long side will allow the user to open the pouch "book-style". In the interior, clear plastic pockets, with elastic tops, as many as can be fitted in, each one large enough to fit ones hand into (maybe a couple of larger pockets). Also include heavy duty velcro fasteners to the exterior so that the whole pouch can be closed quickly without the medic needing to do up all the zips if he has to scoop and scoot under fire.

This is most likely going to appeal not so much to medics as it is to docs who may potentially be required to deliver serious life-saving care under fire or on the move, in the back of an LR or CH-64. A surgeon could then have all his favourite tools and bits and pieces to hand in a way that a CMT or RMA simply wouldn't need.

IF
 
#7
care under fire or on the move, in the back of an LR or CH-64.
Wow, I hope you meant CH 47 and not AH 64. Not much spare room in the back of an Apache! :lol:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#8
INVICTUS said:
care under fire or on the move, in the back of an LR or CH-64.
Wow, I hope you meant CH 47 and not AH 64. Not much spare room in the back of an Apache! lol
T34 is ok!
 
#10
"This is most likely going to appeal not so much to medics as it is to docs who may potentially be required to deliver serious life-saving care under fire or on the move, in the back of an LR or CH-64. A surgeon could then have all his favourite tools and bits and pieces to hand in a way that a CMT or RMA simply wouldn't need."

IF, get yer head out of yer arrse!

What can a doctor do in the back of a CH47 a correctly trained CMT cant? To expensive to send Doc's flying around in the back of aircraft. What the cas needs is less delay to role two and ALL the right people waiting for them there. Puting a Doc in an aircraft would only serve to slow the evac process down.

Docs dont need "Gucci" day sacks, they need a ODP to hand them the kit!
 
#11
If you want to kick the arrse out of it have a look at this model

http://www.rescueandmedical.com/product_detail.asp?ID=269

Designed by SB MO apparently...is very comprehensive medically, but not massively helpful if your a bombs and bullets, full scale kind of guy, designed more for black shod door kicking I'd say

Over engineered for task but still a nice bit of kit, It does carry all the kit you'd need for advanced resus, probably too much for a standard Coy med on the ground in Basra

My preference for the field medic is the US model of med support......each man in a brick carries a single blow out pack, easy access, simple and task orientated. israeli/first care dressing/tournique/crepe/morphine/gloves....

A million medics would like a million different options!!! and medics like most other servicemen are "Tackle tarts"

KISS principal at all levels......
Toodlepip
theGimp
 
#12
My normal principal is

seperate defined areas for AIRWAY, BREATHING and CIRCULATION and drugs

If you know what kit is required for each you can design a solution around each, The ability to "pull" a module free and drop it on the ground next to a body is in my experience a plus.

but the reality is how many times do you crack advanced sh+t while arrses are in pucker mode.....not very often!!

Sound easy? not really

Many ways to skin a cat

toodlepip
theGimp
 
#13
Perhaps a vest could be designed for the CMT (MA) as follows:

Chest - 3 Pouches One at 50mm width/depth 80mm, one at 35mm/depth 80mm and one 25mm/depth 80mm for different calibre combat paint brushes.

Left Kidney Pouch - Pocket B5 size - JSP 361 Tentage Erection.

Right Kidney Pouch - Pocket B5 size - AGAIs Premature Voluntary Discharge Procedure.

Left Waist Front 300mm width/200mm depth - Bass Broom Head

Right Waist Front 300mm width/200mm depth - Bag Black Plastic

Rear Vest - Pack equivalent dimension - for imminent "ring fence". This may not be required as doctors and nurses have sufficient of these.

Kevlar plates to be inserted in the rear of the jacket to prevent "blue on blue" stabbing.

PS. I have been an avid reader of ARRSE for sometime now, but have only just joined the forum. 22 Years in and still no civilian qualification. CMT Steering committee headed by QARANC. WTF has been going on with the Corps????
 
#14
thegimp said:
If you want to kick the arrse out of it have a look at this model

http://www.rescueandmedical.com/product_detail.asp?ID=269

My preference for the field medic is the US model of med support......each man in a brick carries a single blow out pack, easy access, simple and task orientated. israeli/first care dressing/tournique/crepe/morphine/gloves....

KISS principal at all levels......
That website quotes 'negative buoyancy when fully kitted' - I do hope they mean positive buoyancy.

The current issue med pouches are very well designed and sized and can be carried in various convenient ways. They are also available in black for anybody now working in the private sector (Africa/Iraq/Afghan/etc).

Ditto for KISS principal and US model.
 
#15
I'm not to sure that having all your kit hanging from your chest would be such a good idea. Im thinking that if you are kneeling next to a cas then wont your nifty little flap be on them? And what happens if you need to go prone at some point? Maybe a little velcro jobby to hold a pair of them fancy skissors ou get but I cant think of anything else the you wouldn't have in a 341 or a 431 or what ever the name of the grab bag style module is called....

T C
 
#16
Agreed T-C hence over " Over engineered for task" quote

theGimp
 
#17
What can a doctor do in the back of a CH47 a correctly trained CMT cant? To expensive to send Doc's flying around in the back of aircraft. What the cas needs is less delay to role two and ALL the right people waiting for them there. Puting a Doc in an aircraft would only serve to slow the evac process down.

Docs dont need "Gucci" day sacks, they need a ODP to hand them the kit!
Glossing over my momentary dyscalculia, I believe that the key words in your first question are "correctly trained". The answer is, of course, nothing. But an MO (A&E) is going to be a lot more experienced in EHC practice than 90% of CMTs. Having had direct experience of an excellently-trained CMT who nevertheless almost killed a patient with an unnecessary and incorrectly-applied chest-drain during evac, I feel my assessment is valid. As for it being "too expensive" to send Docs flying in CH47s, perhaps you'd like to inform the AA Bde.

Mind you, I couldn't agree more with the last bit. I find the whole idea of specialist med vests/daysacks a bit of a non-issue really. Didn't think much of the IDF one. I can see what they're thinking but...

IF
 
#18
Touchet,

My experience of MO's is the same! If they cant get it right for the 90% of CMT's (whose role it is) how are they going to get it right for the MO's most of which spend theyre peace time days doing medicals in the garrison med centre.

You may well have the experience to operate in such a role but i'd say to you that the most important thing is to understand the limitations of pre hospital care. This ESPECIALY rings true in the military context.

What skills is the MO to bring to the party?
A. Intubation - not without other skilled team members.
B. Chest drainage - not in the back of a low lit CH47.
c. Bloods? - Will your Gucci day sack take a SCIBIT?
d. Induction - again team and kit.

I'm sorry IF, im all for med support moving "up the echelon's" but we struggle to fill the role two slots with relevantly trained MO's aswell as CMT's.


Lets use the ones we have in a clean environment and speed up the evacuation chain.
 
#19
Frank,

Can't argue with that. But the bloke was asking about designing kit. I just don't see medics forking out for custom vests. Gullible warry doctors, however...

IF
 
#20
It's time to think outside the box guys. I am personally a big fan of having small pouches sewn to casualties. Also of soldiers going into battle with pre-sited ET Tubes, chest drains and urinary catheters for extra convenience.
 

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