Feign aid to (part?!)fund hospital ships

This looks like someone has been impressed by the "soft power" projection in the Venezuelan crisis of the USNS Comfort.

The Russians used a similar thing years ago. The Petr Pervyy, a floating eye hospital that stooged around not at all intelligence gathering in Gibraltar, and offering cheap surgery not approved in Europe.
 
When USNS MERCY came alongside Southampton, a couple of years back, she doubled the number of A&E and ICU beds available in Hampshire.

Which sound cool’n’shit, until you realise that if you want to take advantage of that, then you’d need at the same number of EM and ICU Doctors, Nurses and Allied Health Professionals as already work in Hampshire to man her. And be prepared to go to sea. Given the NHS is short of all those people, and we’ve declined to allow the NHS easy access to European medical professionals, I suppose my question is

“Great idea Penny, how you going to deliver on the medical bit of it?”
 

jim30

LE
The RN had a requirement in the 1998 SDR to get two hospital ships brought into service for pretty much these reasons. The IPT (as was) existed for a few years, then eventually died a quiet death without ever doing much beyond a few studies.

If you wanted to provide an RN hull, then let other nations provide the doctors then thats great, but I suspect thats sort of missing the point.
 

mess pres

Old-Salt
See my last post about the RFA. They are great for wars and in general if you can afford them. They move reasonably quickly, have lots of space for stores, are not random tents in a field and upon arriving on station are instantly able to begin operating, not requiring you to put up said tents. Something like 2/3 of the worlds population is with in 200 miles of the sea. Your still going to have trouble getting to people both in and out if its in a field somewhere.

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Horses for courses. Having worked on the Argus operationally, R2A, field hospitals in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as R2LM, ships and tents both have advantages and disadvantages.

A designated hospital ship has lots of disadvantages and is something defence should steer clear of in the current climate.
My suggestion would be something modular, containerised and able to be bolted/plumbed into/onto a variety of hulls including LPDs or operate ashore. Lots of challenges yes, but cheaper and more flexible than a dedicated hospital ship. The Argus replacement will be interesting to see, but I suspect it will be after my time.

If a major war kicked off and you need a hospital ship with a white cross for 200+ casualties a day ships taken up from trade is the answer.
 
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Previously, some have expressed reservations about Think Defence.

Be that as it may, the following LINK contains an extensive review of the (perceived) requirement(s), and a well explained presentation of the possible solutions . . .

Published by: Think Defence, on 09 January 2019.

New Long Read – UK Hospital Ship

"A UK Hospital Ship has been a recurring theme in the media and over the years, accompanied by much online discussion, but it has never really gained much traction in Government. Comments from the Secretary of State for International Development (Penny Mordaunt MP) reported in the Daily Mail would seem to have improved its prospects . . . ".

RFA-ARgus.jpg


A UK Hospital Ship - Think Defence
 
Still wildly misses the point about manning....
 
Christ Almighty. This is up there with Emily Thornberry's wheeze of stripping the Polaris missiles out of the V-boats and packing them full of bootnecks etc to act as a sort of seaborne QRF!!!

Jeremy Corbyn accused of trying to turn Trident into a 'taxi service'

I really do despair some times at some of the airy-fairy, heads full of blancmange ideas that come out of our elected representatives............
not such a daft idea.

I personally liked it. Stealthy subs to deliver sas/sbs types, sig/elint and to pack a punch we can use.

the USN already have them.

USS Ohio (SSGN-726) - Wikipedia

Packs 7 tomahawks in up to 22 tubes, others are drones and the like. Two tubes are air locks or something.

154 tomahawks sitting off your coast would give one pause for thought.
 
Previously, some have expressed reservations about Think Defence.

Be that as it may, the following LINK contains an extensive review of the (perceived) requirement(s), and a well explained presentation of the possible solutions . . .

Published by: Think Defence, on 09 January 2019.

New Long Read – UK Hospital Ship

"A UK Hospital Ship has been a recurring theme in the media and over the years, accompanied by much online discussion, but it has never really gained much traction in Government. Comments from the Secretary of State for International Development (Penny Mordaunt MP) reported in the Daily Mail would seem to have improved its prospects . . . ".

View attachment 370879

A UK Hospital Ship - Think Defence
could a containerised hospital work on a ship?
 
When USNS MERCY came alongside Southampton, a couple of years back, she doubled the number of A&E and ICU beds available in Hampshire.

Which sound cool’n’shit, until you realise that if you want to take advantage of that, then you’d need at the same number of EM and ICU Doctors, Nurses and Allied Health Professionals as already work in Hampshire to man her. And be prepared to go to sea. Given the NHS is short of all those people, and we’ve declined to allow the NHS easy access to European medical professionals, I suppose my question is

“Great idea Penny, how you going to deliver on the medical bit of it?”
Is there any chance some medical specific charities like MSF etc could operate from the ship and let the Merchant navy deal with running the ship ?
 

Yokel

LE
not such a daft idea.

I personally liked it. Stealthy subs to deliver sas/sbs types, sig/elint and to pack a punch we can use.

the USN already have them.

USS Ohio (SSGN-726) - Wikipedia

Packs 7 tomahawks in up to 22 tubes, others are drones and the like. Two tubes are air locks or something.

154 tomahawks sitting off your coast would give one pause for thought.
Not as much as sixteen SLBMs with nuclear warheads, possibly multiple warheads per missile, somewhere out there. We use the nuclear deterrent every day.

could a containerised hospital work on a ship?
You would still need medical/nursing/allied manpower, plus ship availability and crewing.
 
Presumably the hospital facilities on board would also be backed up with the absolute necessity of a logistic capacity, in order to deliver significant amounts of humanitarian disaster relief supplies, when necessary, perhaps in areas with no functioning ports - so equipped with some nice, remarkably useful, amphibious landing facilities as well?
 
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could a containerised hospital work on a ship?
He concludes with the suggestion of a Very Large Module, with photos/drawings.

I did ask in the comments, that with the hospital VLM "parked" on the queyside why/to what other use would the carrying ship, be used?!

Alternatively, having built/paid for the VLM, would we/MoD hire the carrying ship as/when required as STUFT.
 
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Is there any chance some medical specific charities like MSF etc could operate from the ship and let the Merchant navy deal with running the ship ?
Yes. Read the ThinkDefence article.

It will ONLY take about an hour ;) !!
 
The problem with TD is that he is reflects the average spotter’s enthusiasm for hardware and ignores/minimises the need for people.

In the case of some of the variants he proposes, the cost of the MOs/QARNNS/MAs/MedTech required to man them would more than double the overall process, let alone the Deck and Engineer Officers/Ratings.

To have a decent PCRF (because that’s what we need) will cost money, end of. Pay it, don’t pay it, but “innovation” generally ends up costing more. I’ve no problem with “innovation”, but in the main, at the moment, it’s being used as a diversionary tactic instead answering some hard questions.
 
The problem with TD is that he is reflects the average spotter’s enthusiasm for hardware and ignores/minimises the need for people.

In the case of some of the variants he proposes, the cost of the MOs/QARNNS/MAs/MedTech required to man them would more than double the overall process, let alone the Deck and Engineer Officers/Ratings.

To have a decent PCRF (because that’s what we need) will cost money, end of. Pay it, don’t pay it, but “innovation” generally ends up costing more. I’ve no problem with “innovation”, but in the main, at the moment, it’s being used as a diversionary tactic instead answering some hard questions.
I think part of the argument would be that foreign aid budgets are already paying for UK doctors and nurses to be out in various countries delivering health programmes. Which might answer your staffing q
 
Not as much as sixteen SLBMs with nuclear warheads, possibly multiple warheads per missile, somewhere out there. We use the nuclear deterrent every day.
Whilst I understand the concept of the nuclear deterrent, I can't help thinking 154 TLAMs lurking underwater is quite a deterrent in its own right.
 
The problem with TD is that he is reflects the average spotter’s enthusiasm for hardware and ignores/minimises the need for people.

In the case of some of the variants he proposes, the cost of the MOs/QARNNS/MAs/MedTech required to man them would more than double the overall process, let alone the Deck and Engineer Officers/Ratings.

To have a decent PCRF (because that’s what we need) will cost money, end of. Pay it, don’t pay it, but “innovation” generally ends up costing more. I’ve no problem with “innovation”, but in the main, at the moment, it’s being used as a diversionary tactic instead answering some hard questions.
Is a hospital shop really innovative?
 

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