Fat fcking civvies in uniform?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Shotgun, Sep 27, 2003.

?
  1. Soldier first...definitely!

    72.5%
  2. Trade first...definitely!

    7.8%
  3. Real soldier or fckoff to civvy street!

    19.6%

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  1. I was quite taken aback by comments in the REME section where I put a thread saying the REME was probably the only corps where we could do our jobs and a soldiers job too.

    The response was incredible from some brain dead fcking numpties who seemed to think that I was talking rubbish, and we were no good as soldiers, and this was from fcking REME!

    It's my sincere belief that ANY man who serves in the army SHOULD be, and MUST be, a soldier first, at least proficeint as a basic infantryman, and if they don't like it, get fcking out and be a civvy.

    Maybe it was just me. I loved soldiering as much as I loved my trade, and served my complete service with infantry units, and did various courses that were soldier and military qualifications, and most of the people I served with were similiar. Maybe some people are right and the REME is just a bunch of fat ******* that want to do fukall but their trade. If they are right it's a sad day for the army and it wasn't in my experience the case.
     
  2. Shotgun, define soldier first?
     
  3. In the REME there was always, when I was in, a 'soldier first' policy, meaning you are a soldier first and foremost, able to fight and be deployed as a soldier, as opposed to a tradesman first and soldier second.

    That debate has been raging for a long, long time. Many people in so-called support arms didn't, and by the look of it don't, consider that they are soldiers first, and many of them might not even consider themselves soldiers at all and try and bluff their way around the army as tradesmen. This suits the lazy twaats that don't want to run, do exercises and get cold and wet, but the REME seems to be the mainstay of this type of thinking; maybe because they've got used to workshops, mashi wagons and comfy postings, or maybe because they joined the army FOR a trade and not to be a soldier.

    I think you should be a soldier first and tradesman second, and if you don't want to soldier, fck off to civvy street and ply your trade there, and if you can't get a trade from a civvy employer, start stacking fcking shelves at Tesco's. :twisted:
     
  4. shotgun

    even thou im a civvie i agree with you a 100%

    my brother is in the royal engineers and got called up for the 1st gulf war... he was fighting and not doing his trade job. im sure if he wasnt capable as a fighting soldier he wouldnt have been sent there

    ps. dont be silly they wouldnt employ any ex soldiers to work in tescos :p

    just kidding :p
     
  5. Shotgun........In the Army Air Corps I was expected to be a soldier first and a pilot second. We still did guard stags in camp and in the field. We did our bit at "stand-to".

    The REME are a totally different breed of sold...(I nearly said soldier).
    It was my experience that the REME did their bit, but only just enough to satisfy the SSM, nothing over-and-above the call of duty.

    They sure came tops with their list of excuses for not soldiering.
     
  6. hey at least there not the RAF
    do guard duty with them for a scary experiance :lol:
     
  7. Well Shotgun, twice in one night must be a record...agreeing with you that is...

    Nowithstanding my cheap shot on the previous thread, of course we SHOULD be soldiers first and tradesmen second however, I think those who disagreed with your ascertion were quibbling with the inference that, as a REEM, your Corps is every bit as capable at doing the warfighting bit as yer average infanteer.

    I am sure that, in your time, you did your bit and were every bit as able as those with whom you served (anyone who Shotgun mended their gats goner quibble?) but I think you have to recognise that it ain't necessarily so in all cases.

    Every Corps has its fair share of Sharpshooters, Badge Collectors and Walter Mitteys who believe that they are - and most probably are - every bit as capable but believe me the odds are stacked against it.

    Basic skills, kill or be killed, sub 10 minute BFPA, war paint an all, sure, I'll sign up to that, but recognise the limitations.
     
  8. We had aREME guy(SSGT) who said "look at da capbadge" whenever he was asked to do any thing he felt didnt fit exactly into his tiny list of duties

    The next one we had was an absolute diamond top bloke and a real Sqn asset
    Its the old story you get good and bad in everything.
    But which of them was the more typical?
    Which one of them do we keep in touch with? :roll:
     
  9. "Fix bayonets and on the whistle! follow me over the top lads"
     
  10. Even the AGC has a soldier first policy. Or that's what the RAOWO always tries to tell you!!
     
  11. Wouldn't try and sell it that way to the QA's a lot of them believe they are not even soldiers!!!

    Due to to much time in Civvy environment they forget what they are actually in for and when it comes to deployments a majority can actually be heard saying "I did not join to do this"!!!
     
  12. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    Too true, Pompey.

    I was talking to someone who has just returned from a Fd Hosp in sandy places who was concerned at the amount of emotional support some of the newer nurses (of all services) needed.
    Many had done nothing remotely military since basic training/Sandhurst, and were even surprised that they were required to dress properly and call officers Sir/Ma'am etc.

    As you say, many join without thinking that they may actually have to do the military stuff. A shame for those who actually want to do the military stuff (and there are some who are good), let down by the majority of time-promoted wasters.

    Instead of wishing for an all officer corps, Col G ought to get a grip of the Grey Mafia and sort out some basic mil skills training.
     
  13. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    ViroBono, you are into the problem of those who are commissioned on the "knife & fork" AKA "vicars & tarts" 3 weeker at Sandhurst....doctors, nurses, dentists, teachers, lawyers etc. The point of the course was to teach them just enough to avoid embarrassment whilst walking to and from the mess.

    How can an "officer" who doesn't even have a cub scout fire lighting badge be expected to understand how to function in the field?

    You should see the amount of time the NCOs of the medical services spend trying to nursemaid these people round a ration pack and a set of webbing.
     
  14. I think this covers a lot of it. Every year I get at least six different invites to six different unit get-togethers, and when I meet old mates, from the units, not REME, they alway know my name, what I was, where I was etc. etc.

    I asked recently someone who also comes on here if he knows the significance of my nickname here on ARRSE, and he didn't have clue other than to state that it was obvious because I now work as a gunsmith. He was wrong; Shotgun used to be my old callsign whenever I was with a unit of any type, and armourers were always known as callsign Shotgun.
     
  15. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    For want of a good kicking I think that most of the British Army is Soldiers second, exceptions exist certainly BUT let us remember...

    Infantiers get: Personal radios, SUSAT, Grenades, ?LAWs, PNVG's, Warriors, etc.

    Corps get: Radios in HQ, Iron Sights, Soft skinned vehicles.

    One of these are meant to fight, the other, is meant to survive. Be glad the army gave you a rifle at all.

    If you look closely you'll have RA patrolling Bosnia or whatever BUT this isn't really what they are equipped to do.

    The fault lies way above (I offer) our heads where budgets and equipment gets divied up and units get exercises fitting their role. Sure in 1970 everyone had the same gear because everyone could expect Ivan to role over our infantry on Border Day+1 so therefore it was necessary for the REMF (sorry) chaps to dig holes and shoot rifles as they became the second line.

    No more the plan so no more the kit or training. Don't blame the fat cnut who can't shoot but can perform a thyroidectomy or change a sparkplug, the worlds changed and so has the training. It's difficult to get into field exercises if the nearest you've been to a FIBUA complex is to RV in it at the end of a weeks exercise whilst the rest of the troops have stormed it.