Fat fcking civvies in uniform?

Soldier first?

  • Trade first...definitely!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4
#1
I was quite taken aback by comments in the REME section where I put a thread saying the REME was probably the only corps where we could do our jobs and a soldiers job too.

The response was incredible from some brain dead fcking numpties who seemed to think that I was talking rubbish, and we were no good as soldiers, and this was from fcking REME!

It's my sincere belief that ANY man who serves in the army SHOULD be, and MUST be, a soldier first, at least proficeint as a basic infantryman, and if they don't like it, get fcking out and be a civvy.

Maybe it was just me. I loved soldiering as much as I loved my trade, and served my complete service with infantry units, and did various courses that were soldier and military qualifications, and most of the people I served with were similiar. Maybe some people are right and the REME is just a bunch of fat ******* that want to do fukall but their trade. If they are right it's a sad day for the army and it wasn't in my experience the case.
 
#3
Lord Flasheart said:
Shotgun, define soldier first?
In the REME there was always, when I was in, a 'soldier first' policy, meaning you are a soldier first and foremost, able to fight and be deployed as a soldier, as opposed to a tradesman first and soldier second.

That debate has been raging for a long, long time. Many people in so-called support arms didn't, and by the look of it don't, consider that they are soldiers first, and many of them might not even consider themselves soldiers at all and try and bluff their way around the army as tradesmen. This suits the lazy twaats that don't want to run, do exercises and get cold and wet, but the REME seems to be the mainstay of this type of thinking; maybe because they've got used to workshops, mashi wagons and comfy postings, or maybe because they joined the army FOR a trade and not to be a soldier.

I think you should be a soldier first and tradesman second, and if you don't want to soldier, fck off to civvy street and ply your trade there, and if you can't get a trade from a civvy employer, start stacking fcking shelves at Tesco's. :twisted:
 
#4
shotgun

In the REME there was always, when I was in, a 'soldier first' policy, meaning you are a soldier first and foremost, able to fight and be deployed as a soldier, as opposed to a tradesman first and soldier second.

That debate has been raging for a long, long time. Many people in so-called support arms didn't, and by the look of it don't, consider that they are soldiers first, and many of them might not even consider themselves soldiers at all and try and bluff their way around the army as tradesmen. This suits the lazy twaats that don't want to run, do exercises and get cold and wet, but the REME seems to be the mainstay of this type of thinking; maybe because they've got used to workshops, mashi wagons and comfy postings, or maybe because they joined the army FOR a trade and not to be a soldier.

I think you should be a soldier first and tradesman second, and if you don't want to soldier, fck off to civvy street and ply your trade there, and if you can't get a trade from a civvy employer, start stacking fcking shelves at Tesco's.
even thou im a civvie i agree with you a 100%

my brother is in the royal engineers and got called up for the 1st gulf war... he was fighting and not doing his trade job. im sure if he wasnt capable as a fighting soldier he wouldnt have been sent there

ps. dont be silly they wouldnt employ any ex soldiers to work in tescos :p

just kidding :p
 
#5
Shotgun........In the Army Air Corps I was expected to be a soldier first and a pilot second. We still did guard stags in camp and in the field. We did our bit at "stand-to".

The REME are a totally different breed of sold...(I nearly said soldier).
It was my experience that the REME did their bit, but only just enough to satisfy the SSM, nothing over-and-above the call of duty.

They sure came tops with their list of excuses for not soldiering.
 
#7
Well Shotgun, twice in one night must be a record...agreeing with you that is...

Nowithstanding my cheap shot on the previous thread, of course we SHOULD be soldiers first and tradesmen second however, I think those who disagreed with your ascertion were quibbling with the inference that, as a REEM, your Corps is every bit as capable at doing the warfighting bit as yer average infanteer.

I am sure that, in your time, you did your bit and were every bit as able as those with whom you served (anyone who Shotgun mended their gats goner quibble?) but I think you have to recognise that it ain't necessarily so in all cases.

Every Corps has its fair share of Sharpshooters, Badge Collectors and Walter Mitteys who believe that they are - and most probably are - every bit as capable but believe me the odds are stacked against it.

Basic skills, kill or be killed, sub 10 minute BFPA, war paint an all, sure, I'll sign up to that, but recognise the limitations.
 
#8
We had aREME guy(SSGT) who said "look at da capbadge" whenever he was asked to do any thing he felt didnt fit exactly into his tiny list of duties

The next one we had was an absolute diamond top bloke and a real Sqn asset
Its the old story you get good and bad in everything.
But which of them was the more typical?
Which one of them do we keep in touch with? :roll:
 
#10
Even the AGC has a soldier first policy. Or that's what the RAOWO always tries to tell you!!
 
#11
Wouldn't try and sell it that way to the QA's a lot of them believe they are not even soldiers!!!

Due to to much time in Civvy environment they forget what they are actually in for and when it comes to deployments a majority can actually be heard saying "I did not join to do this"!!!
 
#12
Too true, Pompey.

I was talking to someone who has just returned from a Fd Hosp in sandy places who was concerned at the amount of emotional support some of the newer nurses (of all services) needed.
Many had done nothing remotely military since basic training/Sandhurst, and were even surprised that they were required to dress properly and call officers Sir/Ma'am etc.

As you say, many join without thinking that they may actually have to do the military stuff. A shame for those who actually want to do the military stuff (and there are some who are good), let down by the majority of time-promoted wasters.

Instead of wishing for an all officer corps, Col G ought to get a grip of the Grey Mafia and sort out some basic mil skills training.
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
ViroBono, you are into the problem of those who are commissioned on the "knife & fork" AKA "vicars & tarts" 3 weeker at Sandhurst....doctors, nurses, dentists, teachers, lawyers etc. The point of the course was to teach them just enough to avoid embarrassment whilst walking to and from the mess.

How can an "officer" who doesn't even have a cub scout fire lighting badge be expected to understand how to function in the field?

You should see the amount of time the NCOs of the medical services spend trying to nursemaid these people round a ration pack and a set of webbing.
 
#14
Goldfishfart said:
We had aREME guy(SSGT) who said "look at da capbadge" whenever he was asked to do any thing he felt didnt fit exactly into his tiny list of duties

The next one we had was an absolute diamond top bloke and a real Sqn asset
Its the old story you get good and bad in everything.
But which of them was the more typical?
Which one of them do we keep in touch with? :roll:
I think this covers a lot of it. Every year I get at least six different invites to six different unit get-togethers, and when I meet old mates, from the units, not REME, they alway know my name, what I was, where I was etc. etc.

I asked recently someone who also comes on here if he knows the significance of my nickname here on ARRSE, and he didn't have clue other than to state that it was obvious because I now work as a gunsmith. He was wrong; Shotgun used to be my old callsign whenever I was with a unit of any type, and armourers were always known as callsign Shotgun.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#15
For want of a good kicking I think that most of the British Army is Soldiers second, exceptions exist certainly BUT let us remember...

Infantiers get: Personal radios, SUSAT, Grenades, ?LAWs, PNVG's, Warriors, etc.

Corps get: Radios in HQ, Iron Sights, Soft skinned vehicles.

One of these are meant to fight, the other, is meant to survive. Be glad the army gave you a rifle at all.

If you look closely you'll have RA patrolling Bosnia or whatever BUT this isn't really what they are equipped to do.

The fault lies way above (I offer) our heads where budgets and equipment gets divied up and units get exercises fitting their role. Sure in 1970 everyone had the same gear because everyone could expect Ivan to role over our infantry on Border Day+1 so therefore it was necessary for the REMF (sorry) chaps to dig holes and shoot rifles as they became the second line.

No more the plan so no more the kit or training. Don't blame the fat cnut who can't shoot but can perform a thyroidectomy or change a sparkplug, the worlds changed and so has the training. It's difficult to get into field exercises if the nearest you've been to a FIBUA complex is to RV in it at the end of a weeks exercise whilst the rest of the troops have stormed it.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#16
KENR said:
Shotgun........In the Army Air Corps I was expected to be a soldier first and a pilot second. We still did guard stags in camp and in the field. We did our bit at "stand-to".
Did I see 'pilot and stag' in the same line? I thought the pilots needed 18 hours kip a night or they couldn't fly for a fortnight.
 
#17
Shotgun

Having posted on your other thread, I hear what you are saying, but there is a distinct difference between 'soldier first' and 'infantry first', which is what a lot of people imply. This is where you have rubbed the various protagonists the wrong way!

DM
 
#18
dogmonkey said:
Shotgun

Having posted on your other thread, I hear what you are saying, but there is a distinct difference between 'soldier first' and 'infantry first', which is what a lot of people imply. This is where you have rubbed the various protagonists the wrong way!

DM
In the main the protagonists have been REME, and i would conclude that the reason they are rubbed up the wrong way is because they feel someone is expecting them to do some work other than their trade and they feel threatened.

I also don't agree that there is a difference between soldier and infantry; one is the other. However, there is a difference between soldiers trained in some specialised units, and maybe in mortar, SF, Milan and at a stretch Recce platoons, but this is a matter of training and a desire to perform those functions. I won't go back over ground covered earlier, but on virtually every weapon or weapon system there are REME more than capable, and in some cases more capable than the people who are involved as a job in those skills. Most advanced infantry skills aren't normally learned and practiced by every man in an infantry unit, so if you take that to it's natural conclusion, you could say that not every infantryman is an infantryman, and some are 'mere' soldiers, though personally I don't follow that logic, and by the same token I wouldn't expect anyone to take what I said to mean 'every' REME soldier is capable in these skills either.
 
#20
Like someone earlier said, you can now see RA patrolling the streets of Bos and Kosovo.

The infantry is thinly spread with current events and all, when tasks like bos e.t.c. get handed over to support arms, Without being Infantry Soldiers first and foremost how can they realisticly be expected to efficiently defend themselves and the locals if the brown stuff hits the whirly thing?
 

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