Fastest Private to WO2?

#81
Another 'urban myth', us rural yobs are less gullible
Perhaps; but with the sudden expansion of the Army after the Munich Crisis, there was a shortage of young officers, and the solution was to appoint SNCOs to command some of the rifle platoons (shades of "Spearpoint", if you're old enough to remember it or watch it on ITV4) and tank troops.

Such WO3 were known as "Platoon Sergeant-Major" (PSM).... according to the linked wikipedia page, it was created in 1938, and the last appointment made in 1940.

Here's a 23-year-old's CWGC record from the fighting around Dunkirk; note "Warrant Officer Class III", trade given as "Troop Sergeant-Major" or TSM.

Use the following search terms, as typed, and you'll find several CWGC hits for WO3 PSM / TSM:
CWGC "Warrant Officer Class III" 1940
 
#82
Thanks for correcting me and telling me that what I said was an urban myth. I first heard of WO3's when I asked my, now long dead, father what WO3 meat on he rim of his his LS&GC medal. He explained that he was serving in an English county infantry regiment and just prior to WW2 where there was a shortage of young men from the traditional "correct families" to join the regiment. The shortage was caused by "the slaughter on the Somme" (his words). I bow to your superior knowledge but only wished my father knew how wrong he was.
Put your rattle back in the pram, I was referring to the officer casualties ;).
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#83
Has no one mentioned Kitna Price yet?
 
#85
Apparently, some RAuxAF WO managed it in three! Didn't go down too well with the old & bold apparently. He had 'applicable skills'. Don't we all.
 
#86
"O'er Wully" as the Jocks called Sir William Robertson in WW1, went to a Lincolnshire village school and was a footman at Deene Hall where is mother was also "in service", the home of the Brudenell family near Corby, Northants. He joined the Lancers and was commissioned from the rank of Troop Sgt after 17 years service. Evidently he was very thickskinned and obstinate and impervious to criticism at a time when "other ranks" knew their place and did not aspire to commissions. Despite his lack of formal education and not have attended a military college he introduced a recognised system of paperwork into the army and was a fluent linguist. He eventually became Chief of the Imperial General Staff in WW1 but after the war fell out with the PM Lloyd George who got him sacked. Surprising as they both came from lower class backgrounds, you would think they would have got on together. He never bothered to speak in an 'orficer like manner and persisted in not pronouncing his aitches. The ladies of London society adored him as he was muscularly built and roguishly handsome. After the war he enjoyed a successful business career. He married well and his son Sir Brian Robertson became the first Chairman of British Railways. Robertson has always interested me as he is a comparatively local character. His autobiography "A Soldier's Story"" is long out of print but I would dearly love to read it.
 
#87
Thanks for correcting me and telling me that what I said was an urban myth. I first heard of WO3's when I asked my, now long dead, father what WO3 meat on he rim of his his LS&GC medal. He explained that he was serving in an English county infantry regiment and just prior to WW2 where there was a shortage of young men from the traditional "correct families" to join the regiment. The shortage was caused by "the slaughter on the Somme" (his words). I bow to your superior knowledge but only wished my father knew how wrong he was.
A LSGC ranked to a WOIII is a fairly rare beast. Take care of it.
 
#89
This chap must've picked up pretty rapid. He's in the Connaught Cemetary on the edge of Thiepval Wood:

FB_IMG_1478822564458.jpg
 
#91
Not sure if this has been covered and frankly am too drunk to care but is there a record for WO2 to Pte?
I saw one do it in five minutes.

After being found guilty of fraud on his resettlement course bill the sentencing of the General Court Martial lasted about five minutes before they reduced him to Pte and sent him to MCTC for six months, and goodbye LSGC too as he was dismissed with disgrace. Basically threw the book at him.


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#92
My memory is failing but I'm pretty sure that there was a WO2 SSM in the AAC in Hildesheim in the late 80's who was in his twenties' and IIRC had served for only about 10 years.
Not sure if that's massively quick compared to the rest of the Army, but it always felt really rapid to me.
I'm beginning to doubt myself now, is Pte to WO2 feasible in 10-12 years?
 
#93
My memory is failing but I'm pretty sure that there was a WO2 SSM in the AAC in Hildesheim in the late 80's who was in his twenties' and IIRC had served for only about 10 years.
Not sure if that's massively quick compared to the rest of the Army, but it always felt really rapid to me.
I'm beginning to doubt myself now, is Pte to WO2 feasible in 10-12 years?
Yes, I had a few friends make it to WO2 in that time, a couple made it to WO1 within 12, one of them to Conductor.
 
#95
My memory is failing but I'm pretty sure that there was a WO2 SSM in the AAC in Hildesheim in the late 80's who was in his twenties' and IIRC had served for only about 10 years.
Not sure if that's massively quick compared to the rest of the Army, but it always felt really rapid to me.
I'm beginning to doubt myself now, is Pte to WO2 feasible in 10-12 years?

It works both ways. My section, squadron genny workshops. A new man turned up one morning, Immaculate kit, but much older that me, I was 29, his demeanour and attitude was seeming superior, in that he seemed to have had some sort of authority at his last unit. He resented my ordering him, asking, him to muck in and help with the general cleaning and maintenance, under supervision, of the sets and their trailers. After about a week he disappeared. He was a WO2, busted to signalman, for what, I never found out. I had several come and go, but he was the most senior rank.......22 Sigs.1980.
 
#96
I joined the Army as a lance jack, did no basic training and was given an army number 2 days later. transfers between services are probably fairly common now but quite rare 50 years ago.
 
#97
There was a L/Cpl Ace at the REME depot Arborfield during my basic. He lived in the NCO's bunk at the top of our spider leg.
Taff Ace as he was known cos he was Welsh was a well known character in Arborfield circles and almost everyone either knew him or knew of him from tales and folk lore from that period (71 - 76 ISH)

I bumped into him in 76 and he was still a Lance Jack which surprised me a little until he told me that he'd been all the way to WOll and then busted back to L/Jack quite recently.

Taff had gone from l/cpl to wo2 in about 5 years at a guess.

I think @Arte_et_Marte may know of him?? Dunno but maybe.
 
#98
I’d say CAMUS, int Corps and AT trade are exempt from this arguement. I’ve known a 15yr WO2 supply and Geotech RE.
 
#99
I've seen a headstone in Brookwood of a (iirc) 16 year old CSM.
Might have been one or two years older, it was a while ago now. South African gentleman as I recall
 
Staffie to Pte; there was a SSgt in the Pay Office at Bhurtpore, Tidworth, long, long ago when I was a sprog lance jack. The RQMS reckoned this staffie had picked up promotion to WO2 and I remember seeing him in his office one morning. The next day he was a buckshee folding up tents outside HQ block. No idea why, but it was ******* surreal and an early lesson. Nobody beat the system.

Roland Boys Bradford (1892-1917) was one of two brothers awarded the VC during WWI. Joined 5 DLI (TF) Darlington in 1910 aged 18. At 25-years-old he became the youngest Brigadier General in the modern history of the British Army to lead a combat formation.
In 1912 [Bradford] was commissioned as a Regular officer in the 2nd Battalion DLI. In September 1914, 2 DLI sailed for France, and within days had suffered, in a few hours, almost as many casualties as the entire DLI had lost in the Boer War. In ‘D’ Company, the only officer to survive was Roland Bradford.

In February 1915, Lieutenant Bradford was awarded the newly-created Military Cross and was rapidly promoted, taking command of the 9th Battalion DLI in August 1916 as a Temporary Lieutenant Colonel, though his permanent rank was still only Lieutenant and he was only twenty-four years old
Roland Boys Bradford (1892-1917)

On 1 October 1916, during the Battle of the Somme, the 50th Division fought at Eaucourt l’Abbaye. Roland’s battalion went into battle on that afternoon, and for his actions he was awarded the VC.

In line with his abilities, Roland Bradford was given command of the 186th Infantry TF Brigade: (Brigadier) 62nd (2nd West Riding) Division, in early November 1917.

Brigadier-General Bradford VC MC survived for barely three weeks. At Cambrai on 30 November 1917 he was killed by a German shell in Bourlon Wood, and he was buried in Hermies British Cemetery. Brigadier-General Bradford VC MC was twenty-five years old.

Casualties of Cambrai: Brigadier General Roland Boys Bradford VC
 

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