Fast Promotion...But are they quality soldiers?

Discussion in 'Gunners' started by doubleduck, May 20, 2007.

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  1. In the last few years i have seen new lads join up and in no time at all theyre full screws, no experience in Gunnery so to speak and quite frankly rubbish at thier jobs. I know that this is only my view from one regiment but i was wondering if anyone else was thinking the same? And then you hear that someone is going to get promoted to lbdr and the man clearly has no leadership qualities or trade manning really that bad that we have to promote this rubbish?

    P.S im not a disgruntled 16 year gunner and no way am i a sweat however even in my career i have seen a change where gunners of far better quality took ages to promote.

  2. Why are the none promoted better quality?

    Did they, for example, only work on the Guns and not bring anything else to the party?

    Oft heard gripe in the Signals garages is that so and so has got promoted but is "rubbish at the job". Until you realise that the detractor has decided that the "job" is the garage, and so and so wasn't in the garage as they were away getting coursed up or playing Corps' sport.

    What are you basing their leadership on? The fact you and others now don't like them, so don't allow them to lead, thus forcing them down teh AGAI 67 route?

    Lead, Follow or get out of the way, springs to mind there.
  3. Chocolate frog! WTF
    i take it you dont know what im on about? im talking about over promoted under skilled personel. These personel dont encroach on my life, work or anything to do with me apart from when i see them struggloing to do the required tasks asked of them in thier current rank! However in the past you used to have fully qualified, fully skilled personel that perform jobs of at least the rank above them! Remember second elevens? Ask a lbdr in the bcp now to fire the guns quick action using emergency way that theyre going to do that.....ask a lbdr to deploy a rebro....he dont even know how to deploy himself. And then theres in barracks lance jacks and even full screws undertaking routine duties like marching relief, BONCO and they fail to see thier responsibilities and think of them as a chore. As a senior i have been called in many times to sort mundane stuff out that an incompetent over promoted person couldnt sort out, i.e put some drunk to bed. As for AGAI 67 well that seems to work really well too! Bring back the old days when losing money was a good deterent.....picking up litter or doing a couple of extras isnt exactly a harsh punishment.
  4. TBH, No, I didn't know what you were on about. But your second post on the subject makes it clearer.

    Is this there job as a LBdr? or was it something that older and bolder LBdr have done in the past because of more experience doing the guns as opposed to time on ops like now. Could it be creeping excellence?

    Deploy a rebro? What do you mean? Deploy WITH a rebro, then yes they should be able to such a thing i would think, Deploy A rebro, well I am not sure that they should be able to do that.

    AGAI the JNCOs until they do see their responsibilities. WRT putting drunks in bed, as a SNCO I have no drama comeing to deal with it. Until the lads feel more confident they should be able to call someone else in. And to be honest putting them to bed is a bit of grey area at times, they may be better in the cells.
  5. Interesting one this.

    Often talked about is whether the LBdr is a true JNCO any more or just a senior Gunner. Regardless, they don't get promoted without passing leadership course and doing tiem as a Gunner, so maybe there just isn't the choice of before.

    Bigger picture, if Gnrs aren't promoted to LBdr (even if a bit early) on track with career timelines, there wont be anyone to promote to Bdr, then Sgt etc. Soon you end up with nobody to send on DCs courses (or level 4 or whatever) and nobody to assume SNCO command appointments.

    BUT, even in my short (ish) time in I can see the difference between someone who was a gunner 5 years ago and now. Maybe the quality of recruit is different these days?
  6. Do you think that maybe it isnt the lads not being good at the jobs but maybe that they are not being trained correctly? Whos fault is that, yours or theirs? I know that you and i had the benefit of being beaten into knowing every aspect of gunnery or doubling around the gunpark with a handspike above our heads, but times change, so do peoples attitudes maybe its time to change yours! These boys are our future and in the current climate have a lot more war fighting skill than you or i did at their age, they have probably spent more time on patrol in the desert than loading and ramming, so maybe the promotions are deserved!
  7. yeah commz happy with the point of more time spent patrolling the desert however still at ground level we are Gunners and that means being able to carry out your job proficiently.

    Django_strikes i think you have hit the nail on the head that its just a different culture nowadays.

    Are lbdrs now seen as a more senior gunner? Maybe so but then again we used to have top quality senior gunners with drive and enthusiasm which seems to be lacking in some these days.

    Chocky frog deply a rebro or with rebro still means the same....being tasked to site set up and operate.

    I think that the gun crews are the only ones not to suffer so much in this area as job role is quite specific to each man, however OPs and CP crew members seem to be lacking in the quality we have become accustomed to.
  8. Maybe just a shortage of manpower overall then? Or too busy? Or both?

    OPs here are screaming for blokes (and probably other trades), having to take in L2 Command Systems (usually pretty sharp from Ph2) guys to make up numbers then load onto Targetting later (if it fits within the busy schedule). You then have to fit in Leadership courses so they don't stagnate and become 10 year Gnrs!

    With Ops, exercises, leave, Divisional ARRSE abouts, Bde ARRSE abouts and then Regimental ARRSE abouts, there isn't much time left to fit in personal courses (trade, promotion or individual).

    Also a general lack of NCOs mean that there are gaps in vital roles that get filled by people who may not be 100% comfortable with that.

    I dunno - maybe just more people are signing off now, which puts pressure on those that stay, which means when we go away on ops again the pressure is more, so more sign off, so the pressure is of those vicious circles?
  9. I saw this occur all too often. Many got promotion without even been on an ex with the regiment. It makes you sick and makes better men leave.

    But if you have a twelve inch tongue you should use it to your advantage.

  10. instead of licking sour grapes perhaps??
  11. from what i see there is big lack of JNCO with the correct qualifications and promotion is the only way ahead. Every regt is lacking DCs in Strike, ACS, and Arty log more courses need to be run. sooner or later there is going to be a Fecking big balls up. We kneed the right (qualified) people in the correct LSNs and no regt has that.

    deffo more courses need to be ran and people loaded onto them. then we can promote the qualified people into the slots. at the mo its all fecked up cos of ops. this will need sorting out sharpish or thre is gonna be a whole lot of hurt.
  12. instead of licking sour grapes perhaps??

    Who's sour? and I prefer licking cherries :), I left and am more than happy to have done so. Point still stands though. Guess your a fast track knows jack yourself then.

    Good luck if you are.

  13. LMAO I'm hardly fast track. I just have a more informed view than you!!
  14. Lol "fast track" how do you think i feel lol
  15. "I just have a more informed view than you!!"

    Whats exactly is this view of yours then? You can hardly push me into a corner with a none existent view now can you mate.

    And my view was more a first hand account. And the only fast track ive been on is the 400m circuit.