Fantasy NATO

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by armchair_jihad, Jun 16, 2007.

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  1. Fantasy NATO

    We all know it was never what it was meant to be and now the Afghanistan mission is exposing all of the freeloaders who love being snug and warm under the American underwritten safety blanket.

    However why scrap it when it can be radically reformed - non performers fcuked off and pukka Nations brought on board.

    Basic rules are, membership has to remain the same (26) and for reasons of fair play only (for NATO's future enemies) Russia and China are excluded. Also just because a country is small i.e. Estonia or poor i.e. Romania should not mean that they are exchanged for a rich but untested Nation.

    So which NATO members would you bin and which ones would you replace them with?

    i.e. Luxembourg or New Zealand who would you choose with your back to the wall?

    Germany, mega previous military rep, nice kit but pussy whipped into insignificance while S.Korea seems game and may get gamer.

    Spain may have been hot stuff in the 1500 - 1600's but having seen SpanBat in Bosnia I would much rather rely on Columbian troops.

    Slovenia, beautiful Women, nice Mountains but really as tasty in a scrap as the Serbs? (yes I know but that was a home game for very high stakes, it would be different in Afghanistan).

    Explain what your reasons are: political, capabilities, attitudes, experience or what ever.

    Edited to add a list of current NATO members the ones in bold have already been traded -

    Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland ( has no army and only joined NATO when assured they didn't have to start one), Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, UK, US, Greece, Turkey, Germany, Spain
    Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia.
  2. I don't think I could come up with a new 26 Countries, but I think we could ditch France for a start! But TBH I don't know enough about Slovakia, Greece, Latvia etc to comment on them at all. That said, could not having heard anything about them (Good or bad) show that we might not need them?

    I would mind having Australia and NZ on side as well.

    T C
  3. Can we keep Turkey in? They are nails and have the second biggest army after the US.
  4. Poland .... never have a dripping tap in barracks again
  5. Poland is already in - but good point.
  6. Mate, they are not nails. They might be seen to be big, single minded and above political control, but their training is poor, their CoC is not properly joinedup (they are verey stereotyped and old) , their kit is largely old and worn out and they have never really deployed into a worthwhile role. They had a presence in Kabul, but only in Kabul, as to go outside it might have involved casualties. Believe me they look impressive, but really in technolical terms they are way behind. As for them being big, well they claim (or seldom deny) that they have million men in their armed forces. What they don't say it that the Armed Forces of Turkey include their domestic POLIS and their countryside JANDARMA, Their army is big, but not the size they are happy to accept. As for their air forces, they do no train their FGA pilots to fly below abouyt 1,00 AML as it is too dangerous and their aircrews are strictly limited on training hours. Their ac are largely old Phantoms although they do have modern F16, they have few pilots properly trained. Dont trust em!?
  7. In's:
    India - democratic, tough, numbers and a good ally to have in the region
    Israel - as part of a deal to get back behind '67 borders and to keep a potential ME bridgehead.
    Brazil - see India
    Australia - Brits abroad, nails
    New Zealand - Brits abroad and also nails

    Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania - nothing against them but if we have to make room..
    Luxembourg - pointless
    Belgium - humourless cnuts

    Would also like to see Nigeria and maybe Japan among the new boys, can we expand AJ?
  8. I wouldn't sh*t on any African army, even SA these days. As for Nigeria, the entire country could sink in the Atlantic and the only result would be a cleaner, less corrupt world.

    Japan? Hmmmm. JSDF hasn't fired a shot in anger since 1945, same as Boche. Personally, I'd rather stick with Bundeswehr. They at least understand warfare.

    NATO was always as much a political entity as military. With that in mind, and for my mind:


    Taiwan. OK bankroled by the seppos, but hard as nails and damned competant. Bit of a one-trick pony at the moment, but that can change. Piss the PRC off big time, but that's a fringe benefit.

    S.Korea. They've earned it, IMHO. Nuff said.

    Nepal. No explanation needed.


    Iceland. Who would notice? Might get to take some of our fishing rights back, as a side benefit.

    Luxembourg. The Germans will just have to find somewhere else to park their panzers.

    Spain/Portugal. I'd rather be backed up by the RAF. Utterly, utterly Iberian.

    Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania. Why are they there in the first place? Hungary's a third world sheethole, and that's according to Hungarians I know. It's the good one of the three.

    Whatever we do, don't touch the Balkans. We'd be dragged into an endless series of wars for no good reason.
  9. Drop: Turkey, all E. Europeans except Poles.
    Bring on: Aussies, N Zedders, Fiji.

    Keep Holland in, for RnR purposes.
  10. Drop:

    Spain- Failed to reinforce El Salvadorian troops in Najaf when the Mahdi uprising hit. They did not respond to their distress calls. US Marines eventually got tired of waiting an decided to go in and help them. The Salvadorians kept fighting, one of which ran out of ammo and then used a knife and took out three militiamen.

    Luxembourg, Belgium, and Portugal - Need to Make room

    Iceland - They've actually been fairly useful with CIMIC work, but not a huge asset. They can tag along on operations though


    El Salvador - See Spain

    India - Sikh troops, ties to the PRC could give them the ability to Negotiate with China on NATO's behalf.

    Ethiopia - For hitting back at the Islamic Courts, the merry band of murderers who've been allowed to use Somalia as a base for far too long.

    Brazil - Great work as Peacekeepers, Rio Carnival

    Jordan - Reasonably secular, good army, useful in the region

    I'm disappointed that China is off limits
  11. Lots of oil though, so one less on the 'to-do' list..
  12. I was actually tempted to put Nigeria in light of the intervention in Liberia
  13. Throughout history, many, many armies have sworn to 'fight to the death' and 'never surrender'. The Japanese are one of the very, very few who actually carried out that promise. They actually wrote the fcuking book on suicide bombing. 'Nuff said??
  14. Some good ones so far

    Belgium swapped for S.Korea




    Iceland (has no army and only joined NATO when assured they didn't have to start one), swapped for El Salvador - for the reasons Chief_Joseph gave.


    Luxembourg swapped for New Zealand obviously.



    Portugal, swapped for Brazil - nice call






    Spain swapped for India - an excellent choice for so many reasons, we share many of the same battle honours, their system is based on ours and the thought of immaculately groomed Indian Army Officers in perfect late Victorian English lecturing Americans that 'as India is the largest Democracy in the World perhaps on this issue we should take precedence.....' is just too good to miss. Plus they regularly thrash the Pakistanis.

    Czech Republic,






    Lithuania for Japan?oh go on then, or maybe not jury is still out debate is divided....



    Slovenia, swapped for Nepal - top trade!

    In defence of Estonia who may be small but all their sisters do look like Cameron Diaz, they are fully embedded with us in Afghanistan and I have heard no complaints.

    Also Romania don't be so down on them, equipment aside they always come near the top on NATO x's.
  15. I'd agree as an individual soldier they can be as good as any, but their overall success rate as a nation isn't that good. Apart from Imperial Russia, it's hard to think of a nation they beat in a straight fight.

    Fighting to the death doesn't have much to recommend it IMO; unless you achieve your aim in the process all you're doing is making the battlefield a bit more smelly. As for suicide bombing, that's never been that good as a long term large scale strategy, since your people don't last long enough to produce the next generation. Much as I dislike the Japanese world view, I wouldn't wish that on them.

    Besides, their presence is likely to antagonise their neighbours, including some countries I'd much rather have onside, and until they change their pacifist constitution they're non-deployable except in CIMIC roles.

    On the whole, they can take their Banzai and shove it.