Family court in the morning

Well guys.

After many useless and pointless directions hearings over residence and contact, the time has come to finally have a decent allotted time to wrangle matters.

As usual ex-swmbo is behaving like a snake with tits but has dug herself a BFO hole. If your going to put porkies on paper, make sure its consistent.

She has now appointed counsel due to the way I destroyed her solicitor last time. Massage statements all you want you chud, you cant change the facts. And here is the big thing everyone needs to remember when splitting up:


Bank statements, phone records. Text messages. Letters....log it all, keep it all and NEVER put yourself in a position of her word against yours.

Get a dictaphone and tell EVERYONE your recording or its inadmissable.


I must admit that I lost my rag at first and learned the hard way and have had to stick my head in a lot of books to reduce the impact of my mistakes.

I have counsel too but as a McKenzie, as the judge is judging me, not my legal rep.

Its such a shame that some people cant distinguish the differnce between the breakdown of the partnership and the interests of the children.


I may be too optimistic. Waitout for sitrep.
filthyphil:4442725 said:
If your McKenzie is qualified, why not use him? Just curious.
If your willing and able you are the best person to respond to the proceedings as it unfolds. Also, it gives the judge a clear indication of who and what you are as long as you can hold yourself together and stick to the points that matter (the kids best long term interests)

Know your case law and keep up to date but have someone there to keep you on track and advise on points of law you either are unaware of or dont quite understand.

Dont ever go alone as believe me. Its damn hard to let emotions get in the way.
Dont ever go alone as believe me. Its damn hard to let emotions get in the way.
Seconded. Remain calm, stick to the point / argument. Don't embellish or try to make dramatic statement; simple facts, simply put whould see you getting the decision you want.

Best of luck, fella.
Some good advice on this thread so far.

Are you going for a full residence order, shared residence or simply a contact order.

Residence is very hard for the man to obtain if the mother is deemed to have been the 'primary care giver' although shared residence is sometimes possible to achieve as long as it is not too disruptive for the child.

You will probably have no problem with the contact order - they are usually only refused where there is evidence of abuse / alcoholism or that type of thing.

I'd most certainly echo the comments above about keeping your cool and even without a mackenzie friend, when you appear in person you can simply ask the judge to explain matters which you don't understand, most are very good like that. S.8 hearings such as the one you will be attending tomorrow generally do not contain too much in the way of legal technicalities and case law, they are more like finding of fact hearings than anything else in my experience.

Another good tip, no matter how much it sticks in your throat, is to be sure not to say anything nasty / derogatory about your ex, even if it deserves to be said - don't try and point score, the judge will not be impressed at all - let her do that and if she does then all the better for you. Take the moral high ground and do your level best to come accross as the reasonable party. If you can bear to do so you might even tell the court that you are happy to admit that she is a good mother and though the two of you have had your difficulties you have no concerns about her abilities as a parent (unless of course you do have genuine concerns) you can have a hot shower and scrub yourself with bleach after it's all over!! - simply state that you wish to have a fair contact order so that you can maintain a good relationship with your child / children - alternate weekends and holidays are the standard orders.

Bear in mind that the Court doesn't give a damn about what the adults want or what they think is fair, the judge is duty bound to act in the best interests of the child and it is accepted that every child has the right to a relationship with both of their parents. We've all heard the horror stories from groups like fathers for justice etc, but these are rare; the Court will be very reluctant to cut a child's father out of his / her life witout a very good reason to do so.

Best of luck mate.
Hi L-E

Its a very complex case.

I have spent 9 months of the last 14 on 2 different remand periods. 4 and 5 months all to do with malicious allegations.

I spent all that time wisely getting a grip of my emotions and reading law.

Ive suffered as have my 2 sons but the multi agency involvement are coming round to the fact that ex is pulling wool over everybodys eyes in a bid to retain 'possesion' of the kids.

My contention tomorrow is that although she is doing a grand job of the superflicious aspects of motherhood, her actions outside of that will have long term psycological and social detriment to the welfare of OUR ( not her) sons.

I got released from court 5 weeks ago and despite her claiming that she and the boys are at 'Great Risk' she phoned me, changed her number then phoned me again. Rightly so, multi agency involvement are now questioning this percieved risk and waking up to holes in the story.

Also, I was claiming that I was the victim of domestic violence and abuse after standing up to her yet after trawling through google history, it clearly shows that I was indeed searching for advice long before she 'Played the victim'

Its been 2 years of hell but the truth is now dawning on all involved.

Lets hope the court sits up an takes note.

I'll agree to her having residence as long as contact is enforced but she has made her statement clear that she will not agree to any form of contact. Even court ordered.

It may be that it be appropiate that residence be transfered sooner rather than later in anticipation of parental alienation although harmful in the short term, less so in the long as I will enforce contact with her.

Its all such a mess but sadly never needed to be such.
does sound complicated!! have you been charged with or convicted of any offences? ( I won't be nosey and ask what offences have been alleged)

you may have agree to, or even suggest supervised contact for a specified period of time - or even in the worst case scenario, beggining with indirect contact by telephone, email, letter etc.

How old are your boys? the older and more mature they are the greater say they will have in the matter.

Has a Cafcass report been produced? was it favourable to you at all or was it damning - it often depends on the Cafcass officer and some are very biased against the man, much preferring to believe the story of the 'poor little lady' - even though we all know that the timid little creature who appears in court is often an evil bitch straight from the depths of hell when outside of it!!

it's a shame you didn't post earlier I might have been able to give you a few more pointers...

P.s. edited to add - if you do get a court order in place she will have no choice but to follow it - that said, the courts are often not very good at enforcing them and you can be faced with yet another struggle to get and enforcement order - sad to say the odds are still very much stacked against us blokes.

If you do decided you need to get a solicitor to represent you - get a female solicitor...they have no problem in sticking the knife into a woman who they feel is being a bitch!! Sometimes male solicitors tend to fall for the poor little girl act and don't rip into them as much as soon as the tears start flowing!!!
I have always used femail rep in court botj crim an civ when I cant LIP.

The custody staff at court when on remand also made a point of being taken up and by female PCO's and giving blatant support to me in front of the judge as they knew I was getting shafted.

The Data Protection Act has given me a dump full of ammo to refute all the agencies reports. So always remember to cover your backside by dealing with everything in writing and dictaphones.

As for the charges I faced. They were serious but violent/threat accusations rather than sexual thank god. I took them all to the Crown Court but never saw a trial as the CPS dropped charges on the day of trial and substituted a S.2 harassment charge which I had to tactically plead guilty to to prevent the case being remitted to magistrates.

I took a conviction but the CC judge rightly reluctantly accepted and refused crowns application for a restraining order. 4 such applications have thus far been refused with the judge threatening to physically throw CPS counsel out of the courtroom during one, I shit you not. Its on transcript tomorrow.

Anyway folks.

Who knows what the wigged one shall say in the morning.
Well - it's the 11th hour now so whatever will be will be - never give up hope and if you come accross well in court you do stand a chance, I've seen blokes with much worse antecedants than you being awarded reasonable contact orders.

So chin up mate, keep smiling and let's hope it works out for you.

Keep us posted.

God damn it.

I very nearly posted cardinal selfservingcunticide until I finaly realised that deleting your post 8 times means that it is certainly not appropiate for publication.

Anxiety is a twonking funt!!!!!

Best of luck, mate. It's a very hard row, but it can, and often does work out.
Went very well. Full final hearing for first availble date in 4 weeks.

She is now bricking it.

Thanks for all the support.
Went very well. Full final hearing for first availble date in 4 weeks.

She is now bricking it.

Thanks for all the support.
Glad it went well for you mate.

Just out of interest and with a possible tactical move in mind - do either of you qualify for legal aid?

Either way I may have a suggestion for you which could work very much to your advantage!
Good luck. I'm in a not dissimilar position. With a fantastic solicitor and an ex who works in the courts, and once said "I'll make sure no solicitor in the area will go near you".

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