Falluja

#2
Well, i think things are about to change.

Since Dubya has had such a strong backing from his country, he now has the mandate to crush the insurgents in falluja. It would have been political suicide for him to start it before the election. No he can release the wrath of the USMC on to the rats nest of falluja. I just hope they take their time and minimise the civilian casualties or else it may well cause even more problems for the coalition.

agent smith
 
#3
Agent_Smith said:
Well, i think things are about to change.

Since Dubya has had such a strong backing from his country, he now has the mandate to crush the insurgents in falluja. It would have been political suicide for him to start it before the election. No he can release the wrath of the USMC on to the rats nest of falluja. I just hope they take their time and minimise the civilian casualties or else it may well cause even more problems for the coalition.

agent smith
You could be right:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3985493.stm
US military 'seals off Falluja'


Marines have been preparing for an assault on the city
The US military has sealed off the rebel-held Iraqi city of Falluja amid speculation an assault is imminent.
All roads in and out of the mainly Sunni Muslim city have been closed by US troops, Reuters reports.

US and Iraqi officials say they need to flush out insurgents ahead of elections due in January.

Speaking in Brussels, Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said the window was closing for a peaceful settlement in Falluja.

"We intend to liberate the people and bring the rule of law," he told a news conference at a European Union summit.

"The insurgents and the terrorists are still operating there. We hope they will come to their senses, otherwise we will have to bring them to face justice."


The BBC 's Paul Wood, who is with US troops outside Falluja, says Iraqi troops have now arrived at their positions, and final preparations appear to be taking place.

He says units are stocking up with large quantities of artillery shells, and the pace of training has increased.

"We are making last preparations. It will be soon. We are just awaiting orders from Prime Minister Allawi," Marine Col Michael Shupp told Reuters near Falluja.

Mr Allawi has repeatedly threatened an all-out assault on Falluja if residents do not turn in Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is thought to be based there.

His al-Qaeda-linked group has captured and killed hostages and is blamed for a string of suicide bombings.

Weeks of air strikes

US military said it had carried out five air strikes within seven hours on Friday, destroying a command post, arms caches and rebel positions, Reuters reports.

Our correspondent says there is an assumption among the marines that a major assault is inevitable and imminent.

US and Iraqi officials say there are several thousand fighters holed up in the city, 50km (30 miles) west of Baghdad.

The Iraqi authorities say the fighters are highly organised and led by former army officers from Saddam Hussein's army.

The combat hospital at the main US base near Falluja has set up a morgue and doubled medical staff and supplies in preparation for an expected stream of casualties, AP reports.

The US has carried out weeks of "precision strikes" aimed at targeting Zarqawi's fighters and other militant groups in the city.

In other developments:


Iraqi Vice-President Ibrahim al-Jaafari says the election date has been set for 27 January. Mr Allawi later tells reporters in Brussels that no date has been set, although elections will take place by the end of January.

Two children are killed in Muqdadiya, north-east of Baghdad, when a mortar shell intended for a nearby police station hits their home

Three hostages, two from Lebanon and one from Nepal, are released.
 
#4
Dave the Septic said:
Just last week, we lost another nine Marines killed and an equal number of wounded as the result of some ignorant extremists who was able to convince himself that killing himself and as many Americans as possible would send him to paradise where he could finally get his virgins.
They believe that they will go to paradise. They are not afraid to die for it. How can you call them ignorant? its what they believe, their religeon tells them one thing ours tells us another, there is going to be massive blood shed but the only people mourning their dead will be us.
 
#5
ok filbert,

they may not be ignorant.... but they sure are deluded!!!!

there aint gonna be no space for them in their paradise onse the USMC opens up its fury on them!!

Hope its a long and bumpy road for them till they meet their makers (the insurgents obviously not eh USMC!)

agent smith
 
#6
Foxy, there are some suicide attackers who are not the willing matyrs that they are always portrayed as, also it can be easy to persuade the susceptable to do things that they would not normally do.
 
#7
Agent_Smith said:
they may not be ignorant.... but they sure are deluded!!!!
thats more like it.
 
#8
boelynbulldog said:
also it can be easy to persuade the susceptable to do things that they would not normally do.
like QAs at the NAAFI bop?
 
#9
Agent_Smith said:
there aint gonna be no space for them in their paradise onse the USMC opens up its fury on them!!
I dont want to sound negative or anything (just being real) but werent quite a lot of Marines killed the last time that they went stomping into Falluja to give em a dose of US fire power?
 
#11
OldRedCap said:
Other than killing them - what is the alternative? Just how does one negotiate with a religious fanatic/mental defective?
brain surgery ! it usually involves removing the head for examination but as the doc said "the operation was a success but the patient died" :wink:
 
#12
Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi has vowed to "liberate" Falluja, amid growing speculation that a major assault is imminent.
US troops have closed all roads in and out of the rebel-held city and Iraqi troops have taken up position nearby.

US and Iraqi officials have pledged to flush out insurgents ahead of elections due in January.

Speaking in Brussels, Mr Allawi said the window was closing for a peaceful settlement in Falluja.

Mr Allawi has repeatedly threatened an all-out assault on the city if residents do not turn in Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is thought to be based there.
See you in the Hague Mr. Allawi. I don't remember you being elected by the Iraqi people.

If you're so keen to sort Fallujah out, why don't you use Iraqis exclusively to do it then?

All he needs to do now, is grow a moustache. Has he got a brace of sons? :evil: :evil:
 
#13
Filbert Fox said:
Dave the Septic said:
Just last week, we lost another nine Marines killed and an equal number of wounded as the result of some ignorant extremists who was able to convince himself that killing himself and as many Americans as possible would send him to paradise where he could finally get his virgins.
They believe that they will go to paradise. They are not afraid to die for it. How can you call them ignorant? its what they believe, their religeon tells them one thing ours tells us another, there is going to be massive blood shed but the only people mourning their dead will be us.
They also believe that for Jihad (struggle) to have any impact they must have as many witnesses to their 'suicide' as possible - meaing that altough they hate Americans it is not just about killing as many as possible - its creating an impact to make people sit up and take notice.

This does not represent the whole of Islam, the Quaran can be interprested in many ways (hence extremist followings) and the more the West fights them - the more they think that they are right in the continuation of the struggle.
 
#15
We can level the place and kill everything living. That's not difficult. I wonder how we'll all feel in decades to come when terrorists murder civilians shouting "Remember Fallujah !" (the terrorists, not the civilians) Maybe there won't be quite as many smart-arrse comments about the affair then.

Don't kid yourselves that these idiots are Ba'ath party holdouts, they're either AQ come to have a go on the live fire range with real American targets or locals who've seen too many people they know die. And after a while they'll all be AQ as the locals sign up to fight.

Just killing terrorists is not a victory. Killing then faster than you create them is.
 
#16
The time for a solution has passed. The occupation was botched, the Iraqi army was foolishly disbanded, and the prisoner scandal revoved any vestige of moral credibility. The only remaining way to restore order peacefully would have been if Dubya was kicked out and Kerry made a massive gesture of atonement that succeeded in pulling in UN support. UN peacekeepers often get slated but remember that it was Pakistani armour that extracted the Spams from the poo in Mogadishu.

This is a spiral of violence that will only end when the death rate becomes politically unpalatable to US domestic opinion and the troops are pulled out, leaving a Lebanon-style (or Afghanistan-style) wasteland of chaos. Falluajh can be flattened but this will only inspire further violence and it would take far more troops than are in the combined toyboxes of go-it-alone Bush or Bliar to properly police the country.
 
#17
they're either AQ come to have a go on the live fire range with real American targets or locals who've seen too many people they know die
Not forgetting the now disbanded Iraqi National Army and Republican Guard.

Cheers Bremner you weasel. Why oh why, in spite of opposition from the Military , and our Dip, team, did you disband them. Then, to add insult to injury , you told them they weren't going to get paid off either.

The BW were hit by a suicide bomber, and as everyone got their act together, Mortar rounds started arriving. Possibly two different groups , those bloody ex-reg Iraqi Mortar teams, and the martyrs working in concert?

BBC now has a synopsis that it was a 2 part action, the first part being a probe on BW involving RPG gunners the previous day.

Someone there knows their onions, maybe it's time to go back through the "Best foreign student on the course" registers?
 
#18
PartTimePongo said:
they're either AQ come to have a go on the live fire range with real American targets or locals who've seen too many people they know die
Not forgetting the now disbanded Iraqi National Army and Republican Guard.

Cheers Bremner you weasel. Why oh why, in spite of opposition from the Military , and our Dip, team, did you disband them. Then, to add insult to injury , you told them they weren't going to get paid off either....
Even Bremer has been trying to distance himself from the decision to disband the Iraqi Army, which his predecessor Gen Jay Garner had intended to use for reconstruction. Funny how Garner, Kay and now Bremer have all ended up condemning the decisions imposed from the top.
... Bremer and Garner have previously indicated the decision was made in Washington. According to one official who attended a meeting that Bremer had with his staff upon his arrival in Baghdad in mid-May of 2003, Bremer was warned he would cause chaos by demobilizing the army. The CIA station chief told him, "That's another 350,000 Iraqis you're pissing off, and they've got guns." According to one source who was at the meeting, Garner then asked if they could discuss the matter further in a smaller meeting. Garner then said: “Before you announce this thing let’s do all the pros and cons of this, because we are going to have a hell of a lot of problems with it. There are a hell of a lot more cons than there are pros. Let’s line them all up then get on the phone to [Defense Secretary Donald] Rumsfeld.” Bremer replied: “I don’t have any choice. I have to do this.” Garner then protested further, but Bremer cut him off. “The president told me that de-Baathification comes before the immediate needs of the Iraqi people.”
When NEWSWEEK put this account to Bremer in a tape-recorded interview at the Pentagon at the end of September of last year, he did not dispute it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6194092/site/newsweek
 
#19
OldRedCap said:
Other than killing them - what is the alternative? Just how does one negotiate with a religious fanatic/mental defective?
Sorry - is that bin Laden or Bush we're talking about here ?
 
#20
Well guys,

it looks like the americans have realised that if the USMC roll over fallujah and flatten it an all its inhabitants thenm they will lose a lot of support from normal iraqis.

There was a lot of pictures of the elite iraqi regiments that have been groomed by the american 'advisors' showing their mechanised infatry drills (was quite comical cos a number fo the iraquis could not concentrate on their job becuase of the cameras poiting at them (HI mum!!))

They are gonna make sure that a large number of iraqis are used in this action so that they can give them battle experience and make it look like it is not just an american action but an attempt by the iraqi army to help out their countrymen in their fight for democracy.

Personally i would cut off al exits, then send in all the troops i could gather and flatten anyone that got in my way. After regaining control i would provide the inhabitants with food, water and medical care to help with the H&M battle. At least i hope the americans remeber the H&M after the fight otherwise its all a waste of time


agent smith
 

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