Falklands...20 Years On...Could we do it again

#1
I have only been on this site for a couple of weeks and I enjoy the Banter and Good Humour

And by the comments and topics   there is a broad band of
opinion, experience and knowledge

What distresses me is a "softening" in values

many topics  Beat CDT,  Sickies,  Jamie Bulger and Views on Tradition  and the Sgts Mess  open up a new series of  "values"

Do not get me wrong I believe in EO, Discrimination of whatever ilk

But  is it the  New Playstation generation and their lack of "our" values or "different" values to  ours
Are they really softer, weaker than us ??

Or are we the "Old and Bold" getting Tired ,weary and fed up
Losing Interest ???

I ask because all the old ethos of work and play hard,
a slap on the tank park, extras
the weaponry of the Troop Sgt have gone it is a softly,softly approach no more threats
It is perceived as bullying
the only way is to warn for orders
which is no longer straight forward
generally if charged you were Guilty, take the Extras
put it down to life experience

Passing your BFT and CFT was mandatory
many a CFT was spent trying to beat the previous time
In recent weeks I have witnessed people dropping out at both the first and seventh mile points
with no real injury, " a lack of moral fibre"
or is this me,

An Interesting topic I'm sure there will be many views.

Back to my Question
Are we in a position today to go and fight a Falklands scenario, not counting Ops/tours but as a machine ???
or are all wars now to be blanket bomb  Mop up after ???
 
#2
sorry youve lost me, and by the look of how many replies youve had, everyone else too :roll:
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#3
Not sure either but I'll follow the original title Q. Could we fight the falklands now and say... erm,

Yes probably even with this government but politics aside it would be a interesting question for our friends in blue if they could get us down there in one piece, after all, do we have an ACC servicable, or in fact a sub to keep that nasty Belgrano chap of our backs?

What would we fly with 21 refueling missions from UK to bomb Stanley runway? A Cessna? Or do we keep a Vulcan at Duxford?

Rapier 2 I believe is an excellent weapon on paper so about as much good as Rapier 1 with it's missiles on Ascension so nothing lost there.

I guess the new Apache and GR7 kit would make a massive difference as long as we didn't stick everything on one freighter this time. Of course can't say what the Argies have been buying but HVM would be jolly dissipointing for the flyboys...
 
#5
i did the falklands in 1990, i dare say i could do that again :twisted:
 
#7
The Army is going to the dogs - I know cos my father told me.

My father knew cos his father told him, and he was fairly certain cos his father told him, so it must be true.
 
#8
Mr H,
Obviously, no Vulcans for long range strike anymore (I wonder how we'd be using them now had we put new radars and a few JDAM/CALCMs inside!). However, the RN have the more flexible TLAM, and we have Stormshadow (the Harrier can carry it...just!).

Most importantly (although maybe I'm a bit biased!) we have a massively improved ISTAR capability with AWACS, Nimrod R1 (yes I know we had it in 82, but it's a far more capable beast now), and (soon) Sentinel (aka ASTOR) assuming that we stuck an AAR probe on it smartish!!

I suggest that the biggest problem would be maritime transport to get you guys there. The Merchant Navy is a shadow of 82.
Regards,
M2
 
#9
Yep I agree with that , the Merchant Navy is a shadow of its former self and more importantly the RN is in not much better shape, even with the Albion and Bulwark having just joined the Fleet.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#10
That'll be HMS Bulwark the replacement for the old Bulwark, the 'converted commando carrier' that got scrapped in April 1981 on account that the commandos tried to burn her. I bet they regretted that and the 30+ choppers it could have taken with it to Ascension 12 months later.

I hope the chaps are more careful with the new ones.



The interesting thing is that the old Commando Carriers were big bastards, basically converted aircraft carriers - these things.... seem a little smaller. Are we really sure they are going to do anything?

 
#13
and of course theres the weather, who wants to get all cold and wet when sand and heat is in fashion?
 
#14
last thing i heard about the argentian force is their navy a pile of scrap because they cant buy rolls royce spare parts for their engines so who
would invade ?chile ? to get back at us for the pinochet fiasco and upset the argies who they cant stand
 
#15
The new Bulwark and Albion aren't "commando carriers" or replacements for old Bulwark, though they do indeed carry commandos. They are LPDs (aka Assault Ships) and replace Fearless and Intrepid. HMS Ocean is much more similar to the commando carriers.
 
#16
Stevie r,
The loss of the SHAR (and more specifically it's AMRAAM capability) will indeed be a major capability gap for the FAA until the F-35 arrives. However, it is not insurmountable.

The Harrier GR7/9 carries the AIM-9L Sidewinder and will soon get the superb ASRAAM. Whilst it doesn't have the advantage of the SHARs Blue Vixen radar, this can be more than offset by the fact that (unlike 82), it would have the support of robust AEW (either from the Sea King AEW7 or AWACS). This would enable far more economic use of assets, with deck alert being maintained by the jets rather than airborne CAP until AEW picked up the bad guys.

Other than some souped up second hand A-4's, the Argie AF has pretty much stood still since 82, and they still have no active AAM. Therefore, I'd still be confident of the British forces being able to repeat the successes of 82, even if you ignore the advantages of MPA.

Regards,
M2
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#17
Escape-from-PPRuNe said:
The new Bulwark and Albion aren't "commando carriers" or replacements for old Bulwark, though they do indeed carry commandos. They are LPDs (aka Assault Ships) and replace Fearless and Intrepid. HMS Ocean is much more similar to the commando carriers.
I'll yield to your superior knowledge Pruney BUT are we in agreement the navy is full of faggots?
 
#18
no
and why would we want to?
does Bush even know where they are?
would they keep the cost of US oil down at the pumps?
and its too cold and wet and full of sheep
 
#20
Course we could still do it..but only if delayed the return and took a right turn through those froggies..be over in a week or two
 

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