Faith or Nation?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Awol, Jul 15, 2005.

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  1. Given the obvious turmoil within the British muslim community at present, it seems a reasonable question to ask of those of you of faith, of any faith, if you had to choose between your faith and your nation, which would you choose? In other words, if you were in a situation where your religious beliefs came into direct conflict with the interests of this country, what would come first? Ignoring the military law aspect too, I'm talking of your choices as a civilian.
  2. Depends what your talking about. Sunday Trading or Mass Genocide? I guess there's point where people's beliefs, religious or otherwise could be put before their country's.
  3. That's a fair point Bullseye, but let's say that hypothetically, a religious order was issued by the Pope or similar, ordering UK followers to refuse to pay tax because it financed the war in Iraq or that religious headgear was banned in schools. Is anyone prepared to go to prison over their faith?
  4. I'm British, any faith I may have will never come above my country.
  5. I am an adherent to no faith - makes the choice rather easier!
  6. Alright for the majority at the moment, HM is 'Defender of the Faith' meaning C of E, apparently covers 70% of the countries population or something. Any law past against Christians of that denomination would have particularly interesting results. This has happened before, see protestant/catholic shenanigans of 15/1600's. I can't remember where I read it but essentially the Queen is a servant of God on behalf of the nation, so in theory the chain of command starts with the Almighty, through Liz and down to us... Interesting thought.

    Some states still persecute religious persons - see Christians in China as an example, liable to be labelled extremist and imprisoned for having house churches, as occurs to many faiths in countries worldwide. Interestingly many people are killed and imprisoned attempting to smuggle religious material into such countries, so people still choose religion over state, even if it means death.

    It is prophesised in the book of Revelation that Jews and Christians will be persecuted by the antichrist (thought to be person/world leader or organisation) and that many will be beheaded for their beliefs. So perhaps some people will continue to choose faith over state in the future.
  7. what Stoaty said.

    If your faith comes into conflict with the values and laws of the country you live in and you put those above your country then maybe it's time to move somewhere more in line with your beliefs?
  8. But doesn't god, by definition, outrank the law? If god is all wise and all knowing, surely his 'instructions' come above those of mere mortals?
  9. I can't refuse to pay tax, they keep taking it off me before they let me have the rest!

    And would religious headgaer apply to burberry caps for chavs?

    As far as I'm concerned it depends what the country/religion is requiring you to do.

    But, if the religion requires you do something the country won't allow, then you either don't do it, or you leave the country.simple.
  10. Well as God is a made up fantasy figure the question is moot.

    There are very few to zero people who actually follow all the dictates of their religion, in todays society it is next to impossible to do so. Therefore following gods instructions is a "if I feel like it" type of thing anyway so the laws of your society should take precedence.

    This does not mean that you should obey all laws blindly, there have been and still are bad laws which should be filtered through your own morale value system before you decide wether to obey or not.
  11. If it's something along those lines I reckon it'd only be those who were very devout who'd go to prison over it. The majority would probably ignore it.

    What about basic decent beliefs in right and wrong? What if for instance we ended up with a government that decided to murder sections of the population as per Germany 1933-45. If a chruch leader said you should oppose it would you ignore him?

    Personally I love my country, but you can't always be sure it's leaders are going to do the right thing or make laws that are infallible.
  12. It's no good I've tried several times to think of the right words, and it never seemed right. I honestly think it would depend on the situation. But I was brought up Catholic, though I haven't even been in a church for a year, I do believe in God, and I am loyal to Great Britain, and I will die for both. If the two come to loggerheads I guess I'll make the decision then.
  13. It is prophesised in the book of Revelation that Jews and Christians will be persecuted by the antichrist (thought to be person/world leader or organisation) [/quote]

    So contrary to popular belief Dubya and his mate Osama ain't the Anti christ then !!!
  14. I'd go along with that.
  15. I personally struggle with religion in general. In this day and age I find it incredible that people still believe in things which are totally unsupported by any actual concrete evidence. The religion you follow is a product of how/where you were brought up; born in the UK you believe Christianity to be the correct religion, Tibet you go for Buddhism, Pakistan its Islam. It’s not like you've actually been convinced by one particular religion. As an aside, having recently been attached to the American Army and seen the religious right in action (with weapons) I became even more worried about religion.

    Recently we've seen a lot of religious leaders speaking "as one". Surely they must be thinking, deep down, that all the other faith representatives are just wrong.

    I'm atheist, TACON C of E. They do my hatch, match and dispatch ceremonies because churches look nice and we all like a good sing-along.

    The UK is a pretty top place - pragmatic, sensible, reasonable, principled and properly democratic and all my best friends live in it. That's worth fighting for in my eyes. Imaginary friends are not really worth fighting for - no good ever comes of it.