ARRSE is supported by the advertisements on it, so if you use an adblocker please consider helping us by starting an Ad-Free subscription.

Failed Coup in Turkey: 15/07/2016

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by FailyScaley, Jul 15, 2016.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Thanks. Interesting, I wonder what the source is for the (alleged) 'bung'.

    A lot of people say Turkey should be removed from NATO, but none of articles allow for a forced expulsion, only a voluntary one. Imho, in the long term and proven in the past, a valuable and strategic ally. A pity about the current incumbent in the 'Sultans Palace'.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Well given the state of play, I'd suggest Erdogan's security is as leaky as a cullender. And it's not implausible that there was some behind the scenes dealings re the air incident. Moreover NATO is generally out of kilter with Turkey's ambitions now
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    How times have changed since 'The Russians shall not have Constantinople'.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. The EU might get more than it bargained for then
     
  5. I was at a social event recently where a senior Russian official referred to the November 2015 shoot down as "an unfortunate accident", showing a softening of the Russian stance. But Turkey will never trust Russia any more than any other country. I doubt that we'll ever see the S-400 on service in Turkey, either.

    Edited to add: or kicked out of NATO. Turkey is in no hurry to leave; inter alia, who would pay for the maintenence of soapy of their airfields and AKSAZ Naval Base under NATO infrastructure investment?
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  6. Or the fact they are the lead nation in Kabul Airport at the moment until well into next year.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. That Huffington Post article is woeful. The writer regards the Kurds as a homogenous population; they are not. There is nothing to recommend
    That article on the Kurds is utterly drivel. The Kurds are not some homogenous entity full of doughty little pro-Western fighters. It covers a range of linguistic, cultural and tribal divides. And there's nothing remotely nice about the PKK. Since 1984 they have killed about 38,000 people in Turkey and elsewhere. They were supported by the Soviet Union and still have a political office in Moscow. Local support in Turkey is low. More e-Kurds voted for the ruling AKP in Nov 15 than they did for the pro-Kurdish and liberal HDP.

    Moreover the Syrian border is a fold in the map between US COCOMS of EUCOM and CENTCOM with the latter treaty Turkey as another Iraq or Afghanistan
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  8. Russia? Sorry but I have this habit of testing rationales.
    Russia works on two levels as I see it.
    (1) What benefits Russia
    (2) Whatever Russia can do to discomfort the opposition-works for Russia.
    If follows that
    (3) Access to warm waters and to the ME in general benefits Russia. Moreover to be able to compare soviet hardware rather than just the analysis.
    There is a fourth factor. What was it someone said about a treaty obligation to notify us if Russians move?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. The article is more about concerns with Turkey than the inaccuracies you feel in it about the Kurds

    The article was about Turkey and NATO, the Kurds rather more incidental.

    Well, at least in you they have a staunch advocate no matter what they do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Additional protocols to the Montreux Convention of the Straits 1936 cover the 15 day notification of movement of 'vessels of war' through the Turkish Straits.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    What if .. Messrs Sykes and Picot had drawn a few more lines in the sand and set up a Kurdistan in 1918?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. I'm no particular advocate of Erdoğan but happy to correct many of the myths and down right scurrilous reporting on Turkey, but there is a habit in the West to romanticise the Kurds and the PKK in particular. The PKK are not a nice bunch and, I tender, do not represent the views of most Kurds.

    So any article which has factual errors in it does question its overall credibility.
     
  13. As proposed in the Treaty of Sevres? Along with a US-administered Armenia...
     
  14. In whose interest would that have been at the time? The Turks/ottomans have never liked the Kurds anyway. It was a straight fight for influence between the Brits and the French .
     
  15. Agreed. As "authors" of the present situation, it would be nice if we could use this present period of turmoil and uncertainty, to retrospectively NOW draw those lines previously omitted.