Fact or Fiction?

#1
After long time lurking I thought I'd come here for an informed opinion. ( I know, I know )

Also due to the long time lurking I know I'm going to cop a shoeing at the very least, but hopefully it'll be worth it. :oops:

I'm a civvy, not a wah or a Journo, just a civvy, who grew up around the forces and continues to have an interest in what goes on and where.

Now a request if I may be so bold.

Below is part of a thread in another forum and I wanted to find out from those that know best if the poster's comments hold any weight.
1) I don't like to talk about it because I annoys me when people bring up their military service every time they get in an argument as if it's a trump card. I usually just ignore the subject when Brits on LL have said what amounts to "why don't you ******* go over there then?". Well I have been to Afghanistan. But first hand knowledge wouldn't be needed, it's well established that the British troops are not as aggressive and have a far more reactionary way of doing things. They remain in bases and avoid combat in order to avoid casualties often at the expense of the misison. That's why Basrah (total token British contribution there) was never cleared of militias until the Brits left and Americans and Iraqis came in. That's why Helmand went to complete shit when Brits were given command and why all the Taliban from eastern Afghanistan congregated there... they knew that they could operate with near impunity because of British reluctance to engage in combat and take casualties. And they did have impunity until just recently when the US came and took charge in the province. Only then did British troops organize actual offensive operations, most likely just to appease the US.

2) American combat units, no matter what size, engage in far more combat than British combat units. Part of it is because British troops sometimes have absurd equipment shortages or inappropriate equipment entirely which is pretty well known and are basically incapable of the same misisons. There's a lack of armored vehicles and lack of helicopters to supply troops that are outside of main logistics hubs like the lag bases Brits tend to hang out in. But it's also due to the philosophy and the goals of the commanders. The fact of the matter is, it's undeniable that US troops face far more and far more intense combat, both in absolute terms and relatively. The outlook is different. The US is in it to win it, Brits are more concerned about extenuating political goals... specifically to maintain a good relationship with the US.

3) Sitting in bases is the last thing you're supposed to do in a COIN operation. How can you protect the population from an insurgency when you don't leave the safety of your base?


I'm not trying to start a pissing contest or wah my way into the hole. I genuinely want to find out whether this guy knows what he is talking about.

I recognise logic / fact behind some of what he says, I just don't actually believe all that he says.

Hope you can help.
 
#4
Well put it this way, the only war the sceptics have won on their own.....
Grenada.......and some of them had guns so they say.
So make your own mind up.

VH
 
#5
What's the question? Is this a statement that the Septics appear to have a greater resemblance to an X-Box game? Does/should everyone line up in red or blue uniforms and last man standing wins? Does the author like to pretend we are engaged in another Total War situation? Do they have a mental age greater than 12?

Have to say again, what's the question?

No.9
 
A

ALVIN

Guest
#7
Check- one-two,....... Don't worry about it mate. I am perplexed as to why you are so concerned?
For the record, The British soldier is the most finest and well trained in the world. Does that answer your question?
In other words, they know what they are doing, even if our politician's do not!!
 
#8
Ursus.Maritimus said:
Can you provide the source?
I didn't want to at first as I thought the source would detract from the context of the piece. I'm sure some / many know the site and good footage can be found there. Unfortunately most threads end up as a shit throwing contest.

Source: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0d3_1263882139

Click on 'comments' for thread.

No.9 said:
What's the question? Is this a statement that the Septics appear to have a greater resemblance to an X-Box game? Does/should everyone line up in red or blue uniforms and last man standing wins? Does the author like to pretend we are engaged in another Total War situation? Do they have a mental age greater than 12?

Have to say again, what's the question?
Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I was asking whether the author of the post I was quoting actually had a valid point and was correct in his assumptions. Or he is just a knob jockey repeating misconceptions.

I'm asking here, because having a) never served b) never been sent out to Herrick I am in no position to comment.

ALVIN said:
Check- one-two,....... Don't worry about it mate. I am perplexed as to why you are so concerned?
For the record, The British soldier is the most finest and well trained in the world. Does that answer your question?
In other words, they know what they are doing, even if our politician's do not!!
Above I mentioned I was in no position to comment. Yesterday I had a first class ticket, front seat on the rage bus and I was wanting to comment, but I didn't want to make an uninformed one.

I'm not concerned as such, just 'bothered' by the authors perception of UK forces and his own.

It shouldn't bother me and there's an argument, especially from members of this board, to say I'm in no position to be bothered by it, but it does. End of.

Maybe I was wrong to bring it here? I just couldn't think of a better place.

Cheers for the answers so far though.
 
#9
He is a knob jockey both repeating misconceptions and makign up some new ones of his own.

Basra will never be cleared of militias but they were reduced to an acceptable level during TELIC 10 and onwards - if anything the yanks are stirring them back up with their lack of hearts and minds ability.

We stay in camp do we? Two words PANTHER'S CLAW.

The guy is a cnut, ignore him.
 
#10
broken_man said:
He is a knob jockey both repeating misconceptions and makign up some new ones of his own.

Basra will never be cleared of militias but they were reduced to an acceptable level during TELIC 10 and onwards - if anything the yanks are stirring them back up with their lack of hearts and minds ability.

We stay in camp do we? Two words PANTHER'S CLAW.

The guy is a cnut, ignore him.
Good point, well presented :D
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
#11
broken_man said:
He is a knob jockey both repeating misconceptions and makign up some new ones of his own.
The guy is a cnut, ignore him.
The Times online article quoted in the LL comments is not particularly supportive of or complimentary about British forces. It is helped by 2 quotes; “We have no desire to fight the Taleban, but to fix them, pushing slightly farther south, but if we were to go all the way we’d be guaranteed a fight,” said Major Stuart Hill, who commands B Company 2 Mercian." and "One young British officer said: “The Americans caused most of the damage, so they will be picking up the tab.”". Overall I reckon it gives just the impession repeated by the Op's quote.

IMD
 
#12
bah... typical.. useless piece of crap writing... must be American.. totally ignores the Canadian contribution to the Afghan effort.. where they have lost more soldiers as a percentage of their force than any others [until recently] fighting in the the most 'restive' province under Taliban incursions..or the Dutch who have stepped up with even less than the Brits allegedly don't have and, though I hate to say it.. even the French have taken hits and not shirked from it..only ones under-performing are the Germans who are constrained by some very strict ROE imposed by their scared government.

don't sweat this 'writer''' , he obviously hasn't looked beyond the foot of his own bunk for 'research'...
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top