F35 - Money well spent.

[ThunderBox]

The NGAD ‘philosophy’ might see several very different versions in service concurrently, not incremental upgrades and set Blocks as we see now. The thinking is more of a kit of parts than a set aircraft. It’ll be the same airframe but different capabilities at different times - or at the same time(s), if that makes sense.

It takes configurability on a stage.

It means that any opposition can’t plan to fight ‘an‘ NGAD. It also means that some upgrades/changes/developments might only be in and out of service very quickly.

It’s a very interesting way of doing things.

It certainly is interesting, I really look forward to how it evolves and I have no idea how they will achieve this, but damn this would be a step change in military aircraft.

 

[Resasi]

this would be a step change in military aircraft.

And a step change in development of a system that ensures ongoing air superiority in the various theatres it might be required in.

Focussing on ongoing development in engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity, this may well opt to move away from one particular system built in large numbers, but smaller batches of constantly evolving models that can adapt and incorporate latest technology in any of the above fields.

 

[Cold_Collation]

And a step change in development of a system that ensures ongoing air superiority in the various theatres it might be required in.

Focussing on ongoing development in engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity, this may well opt to move away from one particular system built in large numbers, but smaller batches of constantly evolving models that can adapt and incorporate latest technology in any of the above fields.

That's the thinking.

 

[Fedaykin]

If the airframes are still well within their fatigue life, then who cares about equipment? Yon stuff can get yanked out, replaced with better COTS stuff, with up-to-date software support, and carry on for dozens more years. Like what they've been doing with the B-52 for absolute yonks now. Lockheed Martin must have lots of engineers who've been bursting to have a go at bringing the Raptor up to a new standard of lethality.

And all the tooling required to build new Raptors, should the US government listen to common sense and do it, is still available in storage, despite Lockheed Martin's attempts to "lose" it, and many rumours to the contrary.

The problem is it isn't easy to yank stuff out of the F-22, when it comes to avionics it was developed around what was the cutting edge thinking in IT systems engineering during the mid to late 1980's which was a unique to F-22 highly integrated avionics architecture. Even twenty years ago the microprocessors installed were facing severe obsolesce issues! They did upgrade those processors to PowerPC which is also obsolete in modern terms. The shift to modular architecture that was driven by the constant upgrading of the F-16 and F-15 via export sales make it far easier to upgrade types like the F-35. Often an upgrade can be entirely software driven with no changes needed to be made to the avionics to allow carriage of new weapon systems.

One fascinating nugget of forgotten history is the F-22 was intended to share common avionics with the RAH-66 Comanche scout helicopter.

StackPath

 

[terminal]

It certainly is interesting, I really look forward to how it evolves and I have no idea how they will achieve this, but damn this would be a step change in military aircraft.

One of the major problems of the F-35 is the very tight integration of all the systems means that any change in one thing tends to affect other things. The end result is that testing becomes backlogged and new features take a long time to implement in practice.

What they are hoping to do with NGAD is to take a few steps back in the degree of how tightly things are integrated so they can make changes more readily.

The articles that I've read have been light on details, but I get the impression that the root of the problem is the F-35 software is effectively one (or a few) big ball of spaghetti which means there's no such thing as a "minor software change". Everything has to go through testing and validation after any change, and there will be a lot of things already in the testing queue.

The Saab Gripen on the other hand can apparently accept changes very quickly due to how the overall avionics system is designed and split up between the safety and flight critical and non safety critical components. This was discussed in the Canadian news when they were in the bidding to supply new jets to Canada and were talking about fitting NORAD specific requirements.

I don't know if NGAD will be taking the same approach as Saab did with Gripen, but the latter shows the concept is possible in practice.

 

[MOzanne]

This is Russian Stealth


View attachment 673300

Those real fasteners or do the Ivans just glue heads in when they get tired of doing them up....

 

[Escape-from-PPRuNe]

I get the impression that the root of the problem is the F-35 software is effectively one (or a few) big ball of spaghetti which means there's no such thing as a "minor software change".

Yes, it's probably one of the last really big software projects to be built as a tightly integrated monolith, through a waterfall project plan (i.e. every requirement planned out in detail before cutting code). Not only wouldn't anyone do it that way now, they wouldn't have done it that way 10 years ago.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Those real fasteners or do the Ivans just glue heads in when they get tired of doing them up....

It's stealthy that you can't see the stealth.

 

[Raven2008]

Just spent week @ILa Berlin on business so great to see Italian F-35A in static and great to sit in the A model mock up (with the freebie hat)

So here are my pics.

cheers

 

[Fedaykin]

This is Russian Stealth


View attachment 673300

If you want a real laugh read through the comment section of this youtube video of one of the dogfights in the new Topgun movie...spoiler warning if you have not seen the movie!

The sheer COPE from the Sukhoi fanboys is something truly magical to behold...I have only seen greater butthurt from Rafale fanboys in the past...

 

[Thorgan1964]

KF21 ground trials, slight thread drift.

 

[arfah]

Dutch RNLAF F35A tail art

 

[Wightsparker]

Dutch RNLAF F35A tail art

Don't tell me! It' the little Dutch boy giving the finger to the dyke!

 

[arfah]

Don't tell me! It' the little Dutch boy giving the finger to the dyke!

That’s Pôrnhub !

 

[Wightsparker]

That’s Pôrnhub !

OK. I'll concede it's a long finger. But I like 007.

 

[ThunderBox]

OK. I'll concede it's a long finger. But I like 007.

But not a gold finger? Maybe brown finger?

 

[MOzanne]

OK. I'll concede it's a long finger.

Water Pressure...

 

[glad rag]

Again you are making claims like “the raptor gets a mauling” WVR without providing evidence of the engagement.
Do you know how many engagements there were WVR at the specific exercise you are referring to and the kill count for both planes? Simple questions…

To be FAIR. It is on record that F-22 pilots want [RAF] Typhoon as top cover if they go jdam'ing.

 

[Garminalpha84]

Oh, so you're just choppsing off.

I've already qualified that that Raptor wins farther out. Its radar cross-section is tiny and its sensing capabilities outstanding - the lack of an IRST notwithstanding. There's no comparison.

But when Typhoons have been able to close the fight, and it has happened on occasion, the Raptor gets a mauling. The Typhoon is an outstanding dogfighter, both in kinetic terms and because of its missile-cueing.

You might look up what relatively austerely equipped Luftwaffe Typhoons managed to do a decade or so ago.

You do realise that F22’s often fight DAC and loose, not because of the outstanding capabilities of other airframes it’s because the raptor pilots are recent converts to the type. The aggressor squadron for Them are equipped with T38.

What with data link, IFF, and the RCS it has no one gets close to them. If they manage to, the 9X and over the shoulder firing capability is equal to what ever is out there.

If it’s dogfighting the vectored thrust enables the raptor to keep its nose pointed at you while You try and counter it, the Only airframes that come close are the F18E/F and Typhoon.

There’s a interesting podcast about the F22 and the pilot describes intercepting a couple of Iranian F4’s trying to shoot down a Predator over Iraq. Needless to say the iris ians didn’t know they were there until they did some “maverick” style manoeuvre.

If F22 are dropping JDAMS they will have F22 as top cover not a Typhoon,

 

[Ryder02]

You do realise that F22’s often fight DAC and loose, not because of the outstanding capabilities of other airframes it’s because the raptor pilots are recent converts to the type. The aggressor squadron for Them are equipped with T38.

What with data link, IFF, and the RCS it has no one gets close to them. If they manage to, the 9X and over the shoulder firing capability is equal to what ever is out there.

If it’s dogfighting the vectored thrust enables the raptor to keep its nose pointed at you while You try and counter it, the Only airframes that come close are the F18E/F and Typhoon.

There’s a interesting podcast about the F22 and the pilot describes intercepting a couple of Iranian F4’s trying to shoot down a Predator over Iraq. Needless to say the iris ians didn’t know they were there until they did some “maverick” style manoeuvre.

If F22 are dropping JDAMS they will have F22 as top cover not a Typhoon,

You missed out the Raptor pilots telling the Iranians “I think you should go home now…” - which has to be the most humiliating phrase in aviation warfare ever uttered.