F35 - Money well spent.

aardvark64

Old-Salt
@oldsoak mentioned that guns hadn't been used recently, which is true.

Tornados had guns but were used up at medium-level. Strafing wasn't happening from there.

Yes, the Typhoon has a gun - the same 27mm Mauser as the Tornado. But, again, it's used up at medium-level out of the way of small arms, AAA and MANPADs. We've not been doing any air-to-air stuff.

The F-35B faces the issue of weight, which has led to a lot of effort to remove it where possible. Nevertheless, it's still 3,500lb (or thereabouts) heavier than the -A and has a maximum take-off weight that is 10,000lb lower. Hence also the different g limits (9g on the -A, 7g on the -B, 7.5g on the -C) - some structural bits have been thinned out to get the weight down.

And hence also the pod. But, when and where would you use it? You don't want to be down on the deck making strafing runs in your uber-expensive stealth aircraft. You're likely also going to wanting to be doing air-to-air at arm's length - like AMRAAM or Meteor arm's-length.

The gun pod exists but I doubt anyone's going to be looking to put themselves in a position of having/needing to use one.
But the F35 is a replacement for the A-10 as well as the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, U2, B1B, B2 and the B52.

Haven't you heard? It's a much better platform for Close Air Support than the aging and vulnerable A-10.
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
The thing with a fighter having guns is that the pilots are trained in getting close to bogey and turning and burning - hence USN/USMC F-8 Crusader types being posted to TOPGUN to teach ACM.
And also a point that of nineteen F-8 kills in Vietnam, fifteen were with Sidewinder - despite the "last of the gunfighters" nickname.

Am I right in thinking pre Vietnam the USN Phantom force would have considered their primary weapon to be Sparrow, and trained accordingly?
Yes, the Phantom was designed around the AIM-7 in a similar way that the F-14 was built around the AIM-54 Phoenix - it was a primary fleet defence weapon. Once Vietnam was underway, the Navy focussed more on the Sidewinder, both developing the weapon and improving training, as more suitable to close-range visual dogfights: achieving a 50% SSPK in 1972 with the AIM-9G version.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
But the F35 is a replacement for the A-10 as well as the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, U2, B1B, B2 and the B52.

Haven't you heard? It's a much better platform for Close Air Support than the aging and vulnerable A-10.
F-14, already out of service. F-15 - which one? The -E soldiers on, as does the -C, with advanced versions mooted as there aren't enough F-22s to go round. F-16/18, aye, although versions of both will fly on and there's just been an order for Block III F-18s for the USN. U-2, B-1B, B-2 and B-52 I'm sure you're just on a wind-up.

The A-10 can go into non-permissive airspace only with inordinate amounts of support - and sometimes not even then. It's kept in service by politicians entranced by the gun and ignorant of realities.
 
An A10 it will NEVER be!!!
A10 will not survive even in a modestly contested environment, it wasn’t used in Libya, Syria, why you may ask? As it would have been shot down.

A10’s are what old men like myself thank for CAS in Afgan, and fab boi’s like you **** about.
 
I was under the impression that we were only buying 1 x gun pod per 2 x F-35 purchased.
The RAF/FAA F35b have no gun pods at the moment.
 
This will surprise nobody

Banzai!

'The United States on Thursday approved a planned purchase by Japan of 105 F-35 joint strike fighters, moving the country one step closer to becoming the biggest foreign customer of the Lockheed Martin-produced jet. The approved package includes 63 F-35A conventional takeoff and landing aircraft and 42 F-35 short takeoff and landing variants, essentially green-lighting the procurement plans spelled out by Japan in 2018.'

 
Nick Drummond has change from the army should have this, this, that and more this. To The RAF need F35a, if you follow him on social media have a bingo card handy, next he will be claiming we will pick up the imagined indonisia V22 buys?

If he wasn’t English and had served he clearly sounds a lot like @PhotEx
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Nick Drummond has change from the army should have this, this, that and more this. To The RAF need F35a, if you follow him on social media have a bingo card handy, next he will be claiming we will pick up the imagined indonisia V22 buys?

If he wasn’t English and had served he clearly sounds a lot like @PhotEx
Saw that yesterday, along with everyone going Nooooooooo very vehemently at him.
 
Saw that yesterday, along with everyone going Nooooooooo very vehemently at him.
But but it’s cheaper!!


I replied buy more Typhoons, along with others. A ECR Typhoon buy sounds a better option.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
But but it’s cheaper!!


I replied buy more Typhoons, along with others. A ECR Typhoon buy sounds a better option.
Yeah, more Tiffies and wait for Tempest, though committing to the full buy of F35 would still be the preferred option.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Yeah, more Tiffies and wait for Tempest, though committing to the full buy of F35 would still be the preferred option.
I should add, that all our Typhoons should be brought up to Tranche 3 Standard or beyond if it that's possible.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I'm not sure that they can be - the Tranche 1s have significant differences.

I'd like to see the LERXs and the AESA radar in service, mind.
Spain just announced in the last week they are buying new T3 Typhoons to replace their F/A 18s, I'd replace our T1s with T3s and upgrade the rest
 

ZW Clanger

Old-Salt
I'd love to see that. On the other hand, we're a long way short of ordering all the F-35s we say we need.
But how many Typhoons do we have and where are they.

I believe the order was for around 160 in total which has been delivered, say 2 frontline sqds at Conningsby and May be the same at Lossie - so there’s 60 max - where are the other 100?
 
But how many Typhoons do we have and where are they.

I believe the order was for around 160 in total which has been delivered, say 2 frontline sqds at Conningsby and May be the same at Lossie - so there’s 60 max - where are the other 100?
 

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