F35 - Money well spent.

Mr._Average

Old-Salt
Saw this today and thought it worth posting here. Great photo (IMHO) of an F35B on the ground in Cyprus (from earlier this week I'd guess)..
D95_X_LXUAAoJom.jpeg
 
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Yokel

LE
By slidesipping on to the deck and a deck party grabbing toggles on the wing. See First plane-ship landing centenary marked

One feature of the Furious and her sisters was the ability to launch from the hanger.

View attachment 401486
Yes - but the turbulence caused by the superstructure made landing on the foredeck of Furious extremely hazardous, and this is what led to the fatal accident experienced by Sqn Cdr Dunning not long after his first deck landing - the first landing aboard a moving ship. Furious was hurriedly modified by removing the aft turrets, so she had two flight decks - one for take of (forward) and one for landing (aft). She flew off aircraft on operational missions towards the end of the First World War.

Experiments and the National Physical Laboratory proved that the reason landing aboard Furious was difficult was because of disrupted air flow from the superstructure. The next carrier, Argus, was built with a flush deck.
 
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Yokel

LE
Defence Secretary confirms UK still intends to buy 138 F-35 jets

Penny Mordaunt, the Secretary of State for Defence, recently reiterated that the UK still plans to buy 138 F-35 Lightning aircraft over the life of the programme.

Mordaunt said in a Ministerial Statement:


“The F-35B Lightning II is an advanced, fifth-generation aircraft procured to operate alongside the RAF’s Typhoon.

It will be jointly manned by the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy, will be able to operate with equal capability from land and sea, and will form an integral part of Carrier Strike operating from the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers. With advanced sensors, mission systems and low-observable technology (stealth), the Lightning is a fifth-generation air system which will provide the UK with a world-beating combat air capability.

The Lightning will give the UK operational flexibility, allowing us to act at a time and place of our choosing. Seventeen of the first tranche of 48 F-35Bs have already been delivered; we will maintain our plan to buy 138 F-35 Lightning aircraft over the life of the programme, as stated in the Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015.”
 
Given the life of the Programme, that’s a pretty easy claim to make as she’ll have moved on by the time further orders materialise...or don’t.

I’d still say we’ll be lucky to see more than 100.

Regards,
MM
 

Yokel

LE
With the way things are, getting 100 would be a relief. I too wondered what 'over the course of the programme' actually means.

How many does the UK own now?

Perhaps the most imported thing would be to let the RN and RAF have some more manpower, like both Services expected in 2015?
 
...How many does the UK own now?...
I think we’ve got 17 right now split between Edwards AFB (17 Sqn Op Test and Eval) and 617 Sqn at Marham. The OCU, 207 Sqn is forming imminently at the latter location.

...Perhaps the most imported thing would be to let the RN and RAF have some more manpower, like both Services expected in 2015?
That would be nice, as well as investment in infra.

In terms of equipment, I’d personally trade off some F-35s for additional P-8 and T26.

Regards,
MM
 
With the way things are, getting 100 would be a relief. I too wondered what 'over the course of the programme' actually means.
From the start of procurement to the last one going out of service. Ball park guess of 45 years (similar to Tornado), Any individual a/c is unlikely to last the full 45 years (airframe hours, damage, accident, combat loss etc) and you can't buy your entire fleet on day 1 of the service life so you spread the procurement "over the course of the program" to try & balance it out
 
From the start of procurement to the last one going out of service. Ball park guess of 35 years (similar to Tornado), Any individual a/c is unlikely to last the full 35 years (airframe hours, damage, accident, combat loss etc) and you can't buy your entire fleet on day 1 of the service life so you spread the procurement "over the course of the program" to try & balance it out
Spreading procurement is primarily to ease the short term financial burden; in terms of long term finances, it makes a lot more sense to buy them all in one block to benefit from economies of scale. However, our slow rate of procurement also reflects production capacity and our own ability to train and convert personnel.

Fatigue management is more down to the numbers of aircraft in the fleet. If we do buy the full 138, we can probably maintain about 90 in service at any one time. The remainder will be in depth maintenance, upgrades, trials and storage. For instance, quite a few of the GR4s which have recently been retired were 25-30 years + old as they’d been periodically rotated through storage to husband hours and increase the longevity of the fleet.

Regards,
MM
 

Yokel

LE
I think we’ve got 17 right now split between Edwards AFB (17 Sqn Op Test and Eval) and 617 Sqn at Marham. The OCU, 207 Sqn is forming imminently at the latter location.



That would be nice, as well as investment in infra.

In terms of equipment, I’d personally trade off some F-35s for additional P-8 and T26.

Regards,
MM
What about some more ASW/ASuW Merlin HM2 for the carrier task group (and singleton deployments)? Faster to produce helicopters than ships, no? Less of a manning issue - maybe?

Here is a picture of my future wife chatting to some Pingers:

 
I’d love to see more Merlin...and Astutes. However, your helicopters are pretty limited without sufficient ships and that’s what worries me most about the RN.

Indeed, I fear the fleet will reduce in size even further as the Dreadnought spending increases.

Regards,
MM
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Spreading procurement is primarily to ease the short term financial burden; in terms of long term finances, it makes a lot more sense to buy them all in one block to benefit from economies of scale. However, our slow rate of procurement also reflects production capacity and our own ability to train and convert personnel.

Fatigue management is more down to the numbers of aircraft in the fleet. If we do buy the full 138, we can probably maintain about 90 in service at any one time. The remainder will be in depth maintenance, upgrades, trials and storage. For instance, quite a few of the GR4s which have recently been retired were 25-30 years + old as they’d been periodically rotated through storage to husband hours and increase the longevity of the fleet.
Indeed. I worry for the E-7 and P-8 fleets. Too few of either.
 
Indeed. I worry for the E-7 and P-8 fleets. Too few of either.
We can probably just about make do with only five E-7s. However, the P-8 numbers concern me greatly.

...Perhaps not China but Russia do; even after the Kursk, I suspect they have higher priorities than submarine rescue. You may wish to google the folllowing submarine classes and sub-variants, paying particular note where it’s available of the materials used in their construction and operating depths:

Losharik.
Kashalot.
Podmoskovye.
Belgorod.
Paltus.
It appears that the Losharik may not be a concern for a few weeks at least given the recent and tragic fire on board.

Regards,
MM
 

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