F35 - Money well spent.

Because they don’t want to buy “American”.
A feeble childish excuse. Be the best, buy the best.

I’m aware that many U.K. MoD procurement decisions are based on retaining expertise, in combat shipbuilding for instance, and perhaps like in the states, senior politicians lobbying to keep state based production jobs. Retaining skills is justifiable in my opinion.
 
A feeble childish excuse. Be the best, buy the best.

I’m aware that many U.K. MoD procurement decisions are based on retaining expertise, in combat shipbuilding for instance, and perhaps like in the states, senior politicians lobbying to keep state based production jobs. Retaining skills is justifiable in my opinion.
But look at the Hermans, they snubbed the F-35 for more EF’s. They wanted to buy European, and cozy up with the French. Now a single aircraft fleet might be more logsitcally feasible, but how will the EF stand up to the Russian Air Defense network? I
 
Forgetting cost for a moment, the F35 has turned out to be the very best fifth generation aircraft of its type. Nothing comes close to the capabilities currently, or potentially...
The F-35 has enormous potential.

However, we need to avoid evangelism and remember that it is currently a very immature aircraft that, like any new type, has a long way to go before it's true potential is realised. Meanwhile, the F-22 is far more mature and will remain a more capable platform in the air-air domain for the foreseeable future.

...Why would anyone spend big bucks on something inferior for the short or medium term?
Because F-35 will not be made available to everyone and is simply not the most appropriate platform for many nations. Canada is a good example where their emphasis on NORAD ops over enormous expanses of their High North territory augers against a single engined, 'stealthy' platform.

...Be the best, buy the best...
Buying 'the best' doesn't necessarily mean that you can operate it or that 'the best' will be quite at the same standard of 'bestness' you had envisaged.

But look at the Hermans, they snubbed the F-35 for more EF’s. They wanted to buy European, and cozy up with the French. Now a single aircraft fleet might be more logsitcally feasible, but how will the EF stand up to the Russian Air Defense network?
Probably to a similar degree or better than USAF F-15Es, F-16s, B-1Bs and USN FA-18s.

Low Observability and other 5th Gen capabilities are not a silver bullet.

Regular readers will know that I've long been a supporter of F-35. However, 5th Gen is not a panacea, particularly if other elements of a '5th Gen' air force are absent.

Regards,
MM
 
We do buy non American designed kit.
Loads of it actually. But for political considerations the defense industry is heavily guarded in the US. The golden goose must be protected.
Well you have got quite a few airfields, forts and naval bases that need filling with expensive kit. It’s no surprise some industry bods want to protect it at all costs.
 
The F-35 has enormous potential.

However, we need to avoid evangelism and remember that it is currently a very immature aircraft that, like any new type, has a long way to go before it's true potential is realised. Meanwhile, the F-22 is far more mature and will remain a more capable platform in the air-air domain for the foreseeable future.



Because F-35 will not be made available to everyone and is simply not the most appropriate platform for many nations. Canada is a good example where their emphasis on NORAD ops over enormous expanses of their High North territory augers against a single engined, 'stealthy' platform.



Buying 'the best' doesn't necessarily mean that you can operate it or that 'the best' will be quite at the same standard of 'bestness' you had envisaged.



Probably to a similar degree or better than USAF F-15Es, F-16s, B-1Bs and USN FA-18s.

Low Observability and other 5th Gen capabilities are not a silver bullet.

Regular readers will know that I've long been a supporter of F-35. However, 5th Gen is not a panacea, particularly if other elements of a '5th Gen' air force are absent.

Regards,
MM
Why do you have to be so damned reasonable all th time. ;)

I was just starting to have fun.
 
The F-35 has enormous potential.

However, we need to avoid evangelism and remember that it is currently a very immature aircraft that, like any new type, has a long way to go before it's true potential is realised. Meanwhile, the F-22 is far more mature and will remain a more capable platform in the air-air domain for the foreseeable future.



Because F-35 will not be made available to everyone and is simply not the most appropriate platform for many nations. Canada is a good example where their emphasis on NORAD ops over enormous expanses of their High North territory augers against a single engined, 'stealthy' platform.



Buying 'the best' doesn't necessarily mean that you can operate it or that 'the best' will be quite at the same standard of 'bestness' you had envisaged.



Probably to a similar degree or better than USAF F-15Es, F-16s, B-1Bs and USN FA-18s.

Low Observability and other 5th Gen capabilities are not a silver bullet.

Regular readers will know that I've long been a supporter of F-35. However, 5th Gen is not a panacea, particularly if other elements of a '5th Gen' air force are absent.

Regards,
MM
But the USAF/USN/USMC fight as a combined team. How much practice does the Luftwaffe get these days? How many hours of stick time do their jet jockeys get in a year?

If they can’t maintain what they have now, I don’t see them doing much more in the future with their budget issues.
 
But the USAF/USN/USMC fight as a combined team. How much practice does the Luftwaffe get these days? How many hours of stick time do their jet jockeys get in a year?

If they can’t maintain what they have now, I don’t see them doing much more in the future with their budget issues.
Hush, now. The EU won the Cold War, you know.
 
But the USAF/USN/USMC fight as a combined team...
So does NATO.

...How much practice does the Luftwaffe get these days? How many hours of stick time do their jet jockeys get in a year?...
I'd say that's a different argument entirely.

...If they can’t maintain what they have now, I don’t see them doing much more in the future with their budget issues.
Some may suggest that this is even greater justification not to buy F-35 and to consolidate on a single platform.

Regards,
MM
 
Hush, now. The EU won the Cold War, you know.
I think that is a little unkind, especially when you consider all the effort and expense that NATO incurred enforcing standardisation on its membership
 
But look at the Hermans, they snubbed the F-35 for more EF’s. They wanted to buy European, and cozy up with the French. Now a single aircraft fleet might be more logsitcally feasible, but how will the EF stand up to the Russian Air Defense network? I
Better than the F-18.
Plus their current requirement is for air defence, rather than strike.
 
Better than the F-18.
Plus their current requirement is for air defence, rather than strike.
The EF is a multi role bird. They will have to penetrate the Russian Sam belt in order to drop ordinance. Why would you replace the Tornado which was a strike aircraft, with an air defense only bird??
 
The EF is a multi role bird. They will have to penetrate the Russian Sam belt in order to drop ordinance. Why would you replace the Tornado which was a strike aircraft, with an air defense only bird??
Do you seriously think that the Hermans are going to drop a B61 on a Russian military command bunker near Moscow?
 
The EF is a multi role bird...
RAF jets are; Luftwaffe, Spanish and Italians ones much less so although this is the choice of those nations.

...They will have to penetrate the Russian Sam belt in order to drop ordinance...
Not necessarily. Just as we have Stormshadow on our Typhoons, the Luftwaffe could choose to integrate the related Taurus cruise-missile onto their EF.

However, once again, just because something is not 5th Gen doesn’t make it obsolete.

Regards,
MM
 
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