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  1. Morning All,

    Joined a Bisley club with a vgood rep. Passing the club probationary period (edited: some rangework left to do). And soon off to apply for my FAC for scoped rifle...

    ... main question to you chaps is, is F Class run in the UK anything like the US?


    Im not too enthused with full bore target and fancy tipping my hand at the 600/800-1000 yard stuff.

    The club days seem pretty interesting but ive been more impressed with the state-side competitions seen on websites / Youtube et al

    Do we have anything vaguely similar to 'field shooting' competitions and if so, do you have any advice?

    Thinking second-hand rifle (perhaps Remi700 with an AI stock) and a good scope... indeed, c.50% cash split between the rifle and scope)

    Cheers gents
  2. Can't really help you with the comparison on UK/ US Fclass... but think you are on the right track in looking at a Remmy 700. The great thing about them is that there is an enormous after market for them which applies to just about every component in the rifle.

    You can either buy one of the heavy barrel models e.g. PSS (Police Swatty thing - and the first rifle I ever bought) which tend to be very accurate straight out of the box or if you are buying second hand you can gradually build the rifle up funds allowing e.g. add the stock, get it rebarreled / blueprinted (which means having the gun smith work on tightening up the mass production sloppy tolerances as close to the manufacturer's original blueprint and is usually done at the time of having a new barrel put on)

    With regard to the scope - buy the best you can afford. Also if you are going to shoot the longer distances, and depending on calibre, make sure you have enough adjustment range in the scope...when I first tried started shooting my PSS 308 on stickeldown I didnt have enough and had to aim many feet above the target.

    Probably the best advice I can give you and your wallet is take your time and dont rush out and buy something as soon as your FAC arrives. Talk to as many people as you can - all of whom will have different opinions - before deciding.

    Good luck, and hope you have fun acquiring your kit.
  3. Cheers mate - all sounds very sensible (especially the post FAC rush-of-blood to the wallet!)

    I’ve heard several good things about the 700's and was thinking of the Varmint and a few others for the base unit in 7.62

    I don’t think their triggers are up to much - and want a few modifications done with any new stock – eg picatinny rail, floating barrel etc

    The AI stock is lovely to shoot with - though I’m not over keen on anything overly militaristic to avoid scaring the Mrs!

    Glad you said to invest in the scope – I was certainly moving along those lines if only because the gun can be modified whilst the optics cannot (?)

    Looking at x12 as a minimum and will generally take advice from the old lags down at Bisley. Does this sound roughly correct for the range though?
  4. F class seems to be increasingly prone to being a cash fuelled arms race in terms of exotic kit using calibres and loadings that eat barrels made from Unobtainium at an alarming rate. And that is before you get to the mahoosive scopes.

    F-TR is essentially scoped target rifle with a weight limit and more user and wallet friendly.

    As Bilbo says, getting a scope with sufficient adjustment is key. Some makers happily crap on about "50 MOA adjustment" when what they mean is -25 to + 25 from centre. With a 7.62 that will get you out to 700/800 yards ish depending on errrrrr lots.

    However all is not lost if you use mount with proper inbuilt cant (mine has 15 MOA) not some crappy arrangement using shims or something like the Leupold LRT (Long Range Target) offerings that do have sufficient adjustment.
  5. Any of the 700s with a heavy barrel will do. Not sure what the current Remy line up looks like nowadays (noticed they bought a tacticool one in not so long ago with a toblerone rectangular barrel)
    Noticed that there is a new PSS on guntrader in 308 for £1075 ( I paid about £960 for mine in 2005) so looks pretty reasonable guntrader.co.uk - Remington .308 700 POLICE Bolt Action New Rifle

    7.62 / 308 is a very good round and extremely capable out to a 1000 yds. It also gives excellent barrel life compared to to some of the 6mm / 6.5 mm bench rest rounds (e.g. 6x284 - serious F Class shooters will probably change the barrels after 1500 -2000 rounds as accuracy degrades - NB accuracy is a relative concept and just means that they are no longer able to shoot a fly's left bollock off at 750 yds consistently, it'll take them both off every 3rd shot which is just not acceptable)

    You will need to make sure you get a 26" or longer barrel if you plan on shooting the 1000yds a lot as you will need it to keep the round supersonic (e.g. + 1050 fps approx) at a 1000yds - accuracy degrades as the bullet is buffeted whilst it drops back through the sound barrier. Shorter barrels are capable of maintaining supersonic velocities but probably not on a cold winter's day.

    As for your scope magnification it is really personal choice...bear in mind that people shoot competitively with open sights (very accurately) at a 1000yds. The most common range of scope mags appear to be a minimum of 15x to a (say) 42x e.g. Nightforce NXS 12x42, althought March Scopes (the Ferrari of Scopes http://www.deon.co.jp/march/) have a 10x60 and is plenty wonga.
    Although I am not sure people shoot with the mag turned up to 42 or 60 - think they just use it at that mag to see where the shot is marked.

    Triggers on a factory remmy are capable of being tuned to very high standards. You can of course always add a Timmney or Jewell or some other expensive aftermarket trigger. If you feel up to it you can do it your self but make sure it is SAFE if in doubt dont do it or get a gun plumber to do it or check it.
  6. Thanks for all the helpful comments & various PM's. It certainly seems to be an arms race - especially where the optics are concerned!


    From an outsiders point of view, the prevalence of V-bulls and ‘possibles’ in target shooting seems to be rather self-defeating, with people becoming (seemingly) dispirited while the sport remains a complex exercise of windage & MOA.

    The act of ‘shooting’ in TS seems to have taken a back-step? At least the act itself is a smaller part of the ‘whole experience’ than compared to other forms of shooting.

    (Again this is only an inexperienced personal comment, so I do apologize if I’ve inadvertently offended anyone!)

    I am attracted to F Class because it appears to be more about ‘hitting a target’ rather than hitting a 1 inch circle.

    I’m just concerned that this arms race really will become less about the shooting and more about the bling. Optics and curious barrels / ammunition eventually taking centre stage over skill and judgement.

    The US form of F-Class seems more suited to good shots and people who can judge terrain and geography.

    I guess im wondering how you guys expect to see the UK version develop?

    (Edited: Ps just reading the last few posts - alot of food for thought!)
  7. I think just about all forms of competitive shooting have become arms races to one degree or another and F class (as I understand it) is one of the most expensive...it sounds like you might actually enjoy the more 'traditional' open sight (i.e. peep sight) shooting (probably requires the highest 'real' shooting skills - if that makes sense) It's all the leather bondage kit you have to wear that put's me off...the head band is an absolute must though.


    PS If you do not already know http://www.6mmbr.com/ is one of the best web resources for all things 'F'Class
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  8. Hhahaha you're not selling it too me!!!

    Thanks for the links though - I shall try to do a bit more research and come back with another set of ambiguous questions!

    Thanks especially to Bilbo for all the detail too. I'll try to keep posting any updates and gear decisions

  9. ancienturion

    ancienturion LE Book Reviewer

    Which club did you join. Can you not get to know the instructors/coaches at your club and ask around before making any decisions? Go to Bisley this weekend during Phoenix and have a look to see what is available.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Whatever you do try before you buy!
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Thoroughly recommend the fixed-weight Timney trigger if you go for a 700. Don't get the adjustable benchrest one - it's not as good, even though it can be set lighter.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Here is an article from a 2007 Target Sports Magazine - I think you would probably need to add at least another 30-40% for the prices mentioned in the article



    • Like Like x 1
  13. Thanks for the recent posts!

    The scope looks fantastic (and is probably a perfect example of the Arms Race yes!?)


    To answer some questions, I have joined a Bisley club and been on a number of shoots with them - but prefer to remain anonymous in 'ARRSE-Land' until I've got all my FAC paperwork done & dusted!

    I obviously need to present myself to the FAC Officer with a fair degree of knowledge and a clear set of requests to owns a fire arm. And to that end, whilst asking questions of you on the internet is very helpful, I'd prefer to keep a low-key approach until I've ticked all the metaphorical boxes.

    The club instructors are extremely knowledgeable and I will go to them in the first instance to discuss Type and Range of rifle. (Im sure that most Bisley clubs are well catered for in this respect)

    Thanks again for the website links and i'll be back soon to spam you again!


    ps @Bilbo - your article is excellent, many thanks