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F&C soldiers and Naturalisation

#1
Ladies and Gentlemen of arrse. I have a question concerning the above topic. I say question, but as I become more informed, it is likely to turn into a rant.

I have recently been told that if a F&C soldier wishes to go for British citizenship then they must sit the citizenship exam. No exact dramas with that but equally I think the many scrotes that live in our land should do the same.

The main beef of my Question/rant is that our soldiers have to pay £300+ to take the exam and additionally £29 odd to buy the book to help them study. If I have been informed correctly then this is a 'kin sham.

I assume that the many Fijians, Jamaicans, New Zealanders and all manner of other men and women pay taxes on their wages. Why in hell do they then have to bear the considerable expense to apply to become a member of the country that they more often than not serve so well.

Any thoughts?
 
#2
Joker said:
Ladies and Gentlemen of arrse. I have a question concerning the above topic. I say question, but as I become more informed, it is likely to turn into a rant.

I have recently been told that if a F&C soldier wishes to go for British citizenship then they must sit the citizenship exam. No exact dramas with that but equally I think the many scrotes that live in our land should do the same.

The main beef of my Question/rant is that our soldiers have to pay £300+ to take the exam and additionally £29 odd to buy the book to help them study. If I have been informed correctly then this is a 'kin sham.

I assume that the many Fijians, Jamaicans, New Zealanders and all manner of other men and women pay taxes on their wages. Why in hell do they then have to bear the considerable expense to apply to become a member of the country that they more often than not serve so well.

Any thoughts?
I agree with your rant; if they are good enough to join the Army, they should automatically receive a British passport for the length of their service. After a certain number of years, and a very good (or exemplary) record, they should be granted the full passport.

It annoyed me intensely when I had to worry my staff to ensure that F&C soldiers had visas when deploying just in case the aircraft had to divert! Who came up with those rules? Joined up government?

Oh, sorry, that was your rant! I'll stop now...

Litotes
 
#3
Totally agreed, we have been recently dealing with Fijian Soldiers families being stopped at Calais and turned back to Dover. Brilliant thought process there.
 
#4
If your good enough to serve then your good enough to hold a UK passport.

Take that principle and build a workable policy Tony, oh thats right your socialist background meant you burned all the books that mentioned principles....
 
#5
Agreed PL, I have served with men who paid out of their own pocket to fly to the UK to go through CIC and then saved money to fly their family over. Good men that win honours in battle, but apparently are not good enough for a passport or at least a free crack at the citizenship exam.

A crying shame which I shall be raising with my local MP.

I am not suggesting that we should dish out passports willy nilly, but Christ these men have served our country. Fine serve five years of good service and there you go big lad, have a passport.

:pissedoff:
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#6
Joker said:
Agreed PL, I have served with men who paid out of their own pocket to fly to the UK to go through CIC and then saved money to fly their family over. Good men that win honours in battle, but apparently are not good enough for a passport or at least a free crack at the citizenship exam.

A crying shame which I shall be raising with my local MP.

I am not suggesting that we should dish out passports willy nilly, but Christ these men have served our country. Fine serve five years of good service and there you go big lad, have a passport.

:pissedoff:
Its a disgrace that this does not happen already, as you say we know what is in the tin and these guys have served (and usually well in my experience).
 
#8
I fully agree that they should get a passport after or during their service.

However do you think that it will cause the amount of people joining just for the passport. Thereby whittiling down the chances of the best of the crop getting through?
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#9
Invade_france said:
I fully agree that they should get a passport after or during their service.

However do you think that it will cause the amount of people joining just for the passport. Thereby whittiling down the chances of the best of the crop getting through?
You still have the military "filter" to go through, years in, record etc. Same people would probably be looking to get here one way or the other anyway, better this than being sponsored by "aunty Jemima"?
 
#10
Essentially it is return of service, I believe the US ARMY do the same thing in that your service enables you to become a citizen. At least then you have indivduals on a probationary period and they can be adjudged as to whether they are capable of holding a British Passport. Thus a filter is in place. My anger is mainly directed at the need for these men and women to pay for their citizenship although they have already been filling the Government coffers with taxes.
Not sure of the Maths, but I suspect that the average 23% of Pte Soldier pay per annum multiply by 5 years could well give the average Taxes & NI that a soldier will pay in his service.

So that would equal: 53.17 x 365 = 19407.05 x 0.23 = 4463.62 x 5 =
£22,318.10

So having already paid the Governement more then their annual wage, they are expected to additionally fund a citizenship exam.

That, Ladies and Gentlemen, is disgusting
 
#11
I fully agree with you Joker.

You still have the military "filter" to go through
If this is the one that is being so briliantly implimented at the moment for non F&C entries god help us all!

We are getting people out of traning now who have Training Deficiency Chits which means they couldnt pass the subject in trg so they give them to a unit to sort out. By no means are these people the rule, most of the younger lads are well motivated but still...
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#12
Invade_france said:
I fully agree with you Joker.

You still have the military "filter" to go through
If this is the one that is being so briliantly implimented at the moment for non F&C entries god help us all!

We are getting people out of traning now who have Training Deficiency Chits which means they couldnt pass the subject in trg so they give them to a unit to sort out. By no means are these people the rule, most of the younger lads are well motivated but still...
Jes...., ok, but if linked to 5 or 6 years service, exemplary record etc - that would eliminate any dross surely? Could even include a "recommendation" clause if needed?
 
#13
I'm and F&CW officer so have a bit of a vested interest that I think I should declare up front!

Its only been in the last six months or so that F&CW soldiers have been able to apply for citizenship so it doesn't surprise me that they (we) may have to pay for the chance to take the test. I have no issues in jumping hoops to obtain a passport (its not a right after all) but do feel strongly that if you're good enough to serve you are good enough to be a citizen (and yes as I'm paying a lot of tax dollars it might be nice if the goverment considered that this combined with the nature of the work we do might negate the need to pay for the chance).

Work is being done to improve F&CW conditions but its like swimming in treacle. There are still significant issues surrouding families and leave that need to be addressed rapidly. I know from my afro carribean and Fijian collegues that they still have issues with C&I on both sides of the channel which they attribute to 'travelling while black'. The worst I had was one of my Fijian lads trying to get back to Hohne from Stanstead and being refused a flight despite having passport, MOD 90, and an officer from our RHQ attesting to the fact that he was a serving soldier and entitled. Not the best huh?
 
#14
I am currently serving in the same section as a young lad who is being brown lettered and for once the police arnt involved, however its mainly a discipline problem and he has been deemed unfit for military service.

However he is getting an exemplary on his out, to be honest much to the disgust of myself and others.

So the recommendation clause would probably be the way to go, who would you have looking into each individual case?
 
#16
Joker said:
Ladies and Gentlemen of arrse. I have a question concerning the above topic. I say question, but as I become more informed, it is likely to turn into a rant.

I have recently been told that if a F&C soldier wishes to go for British citizenship then they must sit the citizenship exam. No exact dramas with that but equally I think the many scrotes that live in our land should do the same.

The main beef of my Question/rant is that our soldiers have to pay £300+ to take the exam and additionally £29 odd to buy the book to help them study. If I have been informed correctly then this is a 'kin sham.

I assume that the many Fijians, Jamaicans, New Zealanders and all manner of other men and women pay taxes on their wages. Why in hell do they then have to bear the considerable expense to apply to become a member of the country that they more often than not serve so well.

Any thoughts?
Its a disgrace these Lady's and gentleman decide to fight for our queen and country and this is the way they are treated

If our government wants these soldiers to take the exam and buy the book then our government should pay for the exam and books for these soldiers
 
#17
Joker said:
Ladies and Gentlemen of arrse. I have a question concerning the above topic. I say question, but as I become more informed, it is likely to turn into a rant.

I have recently been told that if a F&C soldier wishes to go for British citizenship then they must sit the citizenship exam. No exact dramas with that but equally I think the many scrotes that live in our land should do the same.

The main beef of my Question/rant is that our soldiers have to pay £300+ to take the exam and additionally £29 odd to buy the book to help them study. If I have been informed correctly then this is a 'kin sham.

I assume that the many Fijians, Jamaicans, New Zealanders and all manner of other men and women pay taxes on their wages. Why in hell do they then have to bear the considerable expense to apply to become a member of the country that they more often than not serve so well.

Any thoughts?
 
#19
I have said it before in other Forums I shall say it again here.

There is only one colour in the Army and it is Green. If you are man or woman enough to sign on the dotted line and say "I am willing to serve" then this country should repay them with the right to live in this country once that service is done. :evil:

For Gods sake, it is basic. Service should equal Citizenship.

Now someone find a journo to link this thread to, and lets have a campaign, a la the Fair pensions for Gurkhas (and there is another one that should have been a no brainer for a succession of Gubmints). :evil:

Heed.
 
#20
Joker said:
Totally agreed, we have been recently dealing with Fijian Soldiers families being stopped at Calais and turned back to Dover. Brilliant thought process there.
If these men are not British Citizens, I wonder what would be the outcome in the unfortunate event that they find themselves in a situation as we are now having in Iran?
But certainly this was not aways a problem, as I personally got citizenship after 4-1/2 years, no hassle.
 

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