The problem with European colonies flung all over the far reaches, is for another thread.We all (know why) the USA was so against the old system of European “Colonies”, and the “unfair” advantages they brought to trade and the prosperity of those European countries.
It could be suggested, that the USA might re-evaluate its commitment to the (cost of the) defence of Europe, as the price necessary to maintain a presence within one of the USA’s most prosperous, sophisticated and compatible trading partners.
Many were relieved and overjoyed when the Warsaw Pact countries - and, the three Baltic States - were allowed to state their preferences and applied to join NATO (and the increasingly confused EU).
The traumatic wholesale (unresolved) changes to their nations’, countries, mindsets, economies, industries, societies, politics, can not - should STILL not - be underestimated !!
The “Peace Dividend” was a fcuking disaster!
I rejoice in the advent of “Cold War 2”.
It has thrown into focus, the real world dangers that Europe has always been subject to, and threatened by.
The USA should be aware that it is not a game of chequers that is been played. It has always been a game of chess.
Without the US committed to, and presence within, NATO; and, specifically without the US committed to, and presence within Europe; it is not inconceivable that the WHOLE of Europe could (eventually) fall under the greater influence of Russia .
It would appear that as negative as it may seem, there remain doubts about this situation and these have come up again, and as much as it would be desirable for them to remain as allies they are not making it easy. Even Mother T may have had limits, as saintly as she may have been.I think it's really just a matter of balance. Turkey are undoubtedly difficult partners and I genuinely share some of your concerns regarding their access to F-35 if they're allowed to take them home. Equally, even in the age of Erdogan, I'd say it''s better to have them inside our tent pissing out than outside pissing in...to quote Mother Theresa!
And the story makes it clear that for Turkey the issue is about price and technology, while for the US it is about finding things to which political strings can be attached.Turkey still seems set to buy the S-400.
Why Turkey is pushing ahead with the Russian S-400 missile deal | Ahval
The US has refused both finance options and technology transfer, which pretty much kills the deal so far as the Turks are concerned.Akhmetov said it was important for Turkey to “get as many modern technologies as possible … For Turkey's burgeoning defence industry, it is not only critical to be able to produce, but also to export new weapon systems,” he said.
Turkey has an issue, he said, “with European and U.S. governments trying to bind technical cooperation to political demands” which “means Turkey cannot replicate or resell weapon systems to third countries without the authorisation of the companies that make them.”
Akhmetov said the F-35 deal with Turkey, like the S-400, “is not only a defence project but also a commercial project.”
The US had refused to sell Patriot missiles to Turkey for years, and only reversed themselves when Turkey reached a deal to buy S-400s instead.The U.S. administration made its offer before Feb. 15, and then increased the price of the multi-billion dollar system in return for quick delivery, according to the officials who are familiar with the talks but not authorized to speak to the media. The proposal didn’t include a loan agreement nor a technology sharing pact, a key Turkish demand, they said.
Turkey said in its response that it can’t accept the U.S. offer and negotiations came to a standstill, the officials said.
If the Turks were to buy Patriots they would not only not get the commercial terms they want, they would also apparently be subject to the same sort of "strings attached" arm twisting that they are facing with F-35s. The more the US threatens Turkey with respect to American control over Turkey's F-35s, the less attractive the planes may start to appear to the Turks.Having balked for years at selling Turkey the Patriot system, the U.S. State Department notified Congress in December that it had proposed doing just that, a gambit designed to get Ankara to halt an agreement with Russia for a S-400-based system, which could compromise NATO technology.
There has always been an element of anti US/NATO sentiment in Turkey but this latest standoff will only be adding to it. This has been recognised in the US and they are reacting to it.
U.S. Lawmakers Talk Turkey to Ankara
And if there is growing doubt about Turkey receiving the F-35, this piece of news may not make them feel any better. Vice Admiral Mathias Winter, head of the Pentagon’s F-35 office, told Congress on Thursday that sales of the jets could be expanded to include five new countries – Singapore, Spain, Romania, Greece and Poland.
Pentagon eyes F-35 sales to Greece, Romania and Poland -U.S. official - Reuters
This was followed on Friday by by Defense Minister Evangelos Apostolakis suggesting it would be an important upgrading to the Greek Air Force.
Greece to examine F-35 acquisition, says defense minister | Kathimerini
Paging @Crash . . . !!I agree, Turkey has drifted away to the point of no return. It is time to make peace with that and treat them accordingly. It has bipartisan support, and nobody really likes or a gives a shit about Turkey anyway, so not much opposition will be felt.
Not to mention the growing relationship between Turkey and China with their joint agreements on China's 'Belt and Road' strategy...To the US and the Pro-Consul CG CENTCOM, Turkey is some distant vaguely Middle Eastern country that sits on the fold of the map with EUCOM. However to Europe and the UK, it's the extended front line against trouble spreading from the Middle East terrorism, irregular migration, smuggling, narcotics, people trafficking...
It's no coincidence that the British Embassy is the largest in Europe by over 100 staff and has just about every Government department represented there. Erdogan may be unpalatable to many (and his love-in with Putin is uncomfortable) but geography doesn't change. Turkey controls the entrance to the Black Sea and borders Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Greece and Bulgaria and has a de facto border with the Republic of Cyprus. All in all, a tough neighborhood.
Turkey is up shit creek, and I anticipate their withdrawal from NATO in the near future. They misjudged this one pretty badly.Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Ankara could face retribution for the deal under a sanctions law known as Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CATSAA).
Erdogan’s response, “The F-35 project will collapse without Turkey." An interesting statement given the number of Air Forces in various countries already operating them.
Erdogan says F-35 project would collapse without Turkey - Reuters
On August 2, 2017, President Trump signed into law the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act. At the time, this specifically targeted Russia, North Korea, and Iran.
The law is a muscular, bipartisan statement that US Congress continues to view vigorous economic sanctions as a cornerstone of US foreign policy. Congress will play a leading role in restricting trade, sometimes in conflict with the president’s authority to conduct diplomacy.
Section of the law significantly expand the scope of the US sanctions regime, and require careful review by both US and non-US companies. Present US sanction on Iran are definitely catching Iran’s attention nationally, and having an effect on its funding of terror groups.
Iran’s Allies Feel the Pain of American Sanctions
U.S. Sanctions Biting Iran
Erdogan may not have paid much attention to possible further consequences of his cosying up to Russia. The EU has been pretty silent, but it seems he is being served notice that there are other steps beyond the witholding of the F-35 that can be taken.
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