Extra Inf battalion for next Herrick

#1
The Murdoch papers are reporting that a third infantry battalion will deploy in the next Herrick rotation:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2560930,00.html

A decision by ministers on the expected reinforcements is due soon because preparations are already far in advance to replace the Royal Marines currently deployed in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan. The Marines of 3 Commando Brigade are due to return home in March.

They are being replaced by 12 Mechanised Brigade, commanded by Brigadier John Lorimer. He has been on a reconnaissance mission to Helmand to review troop requirements for his tour of duty.

The brigade is due in Helmand in March with only two infantry regiments, the 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards and the 1st Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, replacing 42 and 45 Royal Marine Commandos. Now it appears likely that there will be three.

The extra infantry regiment earmarked for Afghanistan is the 1st Battalion The Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters, which is currently based in London on public duties. This regiment is not normally part of 12 Mechanised Brigade.
Also:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007030637,00.html

Apologies if already posted.
 
#2
Interesting one that. I wonder if they are all going out with Snatch Landies, or better still, bicycles.

Seems to me that the harder core of our forces is coming home just before the harder fighting is about to start. I understand that they've had a hard time of it and that they need some R&R, but the rotation seems a little arrse about face.

If there is a big offensive starting in the spring, we would to well to get some more serious mountain boys in the hills to grab the feckers as they cross the border.
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#4
Also made the Telegraph by George Jones:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/23/wafghan23.xml
he Government is preparing to send more troops to Afghanistan despite an admission from Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, yesterday that the Army is already being asked to do more than was originally planned.

Mr Browne was involved in heated exchanges in the Commons over Conservative claims that three Army battalions were being prepared to go to Afghanistan to replace the two already there – an increase of between 500-600 soldiers.

He told MPs that force levels were "under review" and he would not add to speculation about future deployments.

The preparations to send more troops will raise concerns about so-called "mission creep" in Afghanistan.

Military commanders have already raised concerns over how long the Army can cope with major operations in Iraq and Afghanistan without the risk of serious consequences for morale and training.

Mr Browne assured MPs that he still hoped to withdraw thousands of troops from Iraq this year, provided the hand-over of security to Iraqi forces in the south of the country went ahead as planned. The Ministry of Defence later confirmed that several units were now preparing for possible deployment to Afghanistan, where an upsurge of attacks by the Taliban is expected in the spring.

A spokesman said no decision had yet been taken on how many troops would be sent to replace the two commando battalions in Afghanistan, which are due to return to the UK in April.

Liam Fox, the Conservative defence spokesman, said the 1st Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, the 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards and the 1st Battalion The Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters Regiment were preparing to deploy to Afghanistan. Dr Fox said troops serving in Afghanistan had reported problems with mine protected vehicles, a shortage of armoured vehicles and a lack of night vision equipment. "If we haven't got enough equipment for two battalions, how will we have enough for three?" he asked.

Mr Browne said all urgent operational requirements "approved by the chain of command" had gone ahead and denied reports that some had been turned down on financial grounds.

Outside the Commons, Dr Fox said: "If we are sending an extra battalion to Helmand to boost our forces, the Government must ensure it provides extra support and equipment – including more helicopters and proper armoured vehicles. Our troops deserve to have the kit they need to do the job asked of them."

The Commons exchanges were dominated by clashes between Tory MPs and ministers over defence spending and growing concern that the forces were overstretched and under-resourced.

In a letter published in The Daily Telegraph today Mr Browne rejects Conservative claims that the Government has cut the amount spent on defence. He said that over the last five annual budgets set by Labour it had risen by around £1 billion a year – and at £30 billion a year now was far higher in real terms than it was under the last Tory government.

In the Commons, Mr Browne said the size of the Army – 101,000 – was about the same as Labour inherited when it came to power in 1997. He acknowledged that ministers were now asking it to do more than was planned during the last defence review five years ago. "But that doesn't mean the Army isn't capable of doing it."

He admitted that if the Army had to keep up its operational tempo for too long, there was a danger it would be damaged. "But we don't intend to do that."
 
#5
Giblets said:
Interesting one that. I wonder if they are all going out with Snatch Landies, or better still, bicycles.

Seems to me that the harder core of our forces is coming home just before the harder fighting is about to start. I understand that they've had a hard time of it and that they need some R&R, but the rotation seems a little arrse about face.

If there is a big offensive starting in the spring, we would to well to get some more serious mountain boys in the hills to grab the feckers as they cross the border.
Bloody harder core? You cheeky git, you have no clue what you are on about,your post proves that.Yet another Para/Marine media guru!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#7
Is it deploying as a Bn strength manoeuvre unit, or FP Coy? They have also not mentioned the log sp, medic sp, etc but we know that they are going too.

The point is that they have finally accepted that it is more than a 2 Inf Bn task -= just a little bit overdue.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#8
Giblets said:
Interesting one that. I wonder if they are all going out with Snatch Landies, or better still, bicycles.

Seems to me that the harder core of our forces is coming home just before the harder fighting is about to start. I understand that they've had a hard time of it and that they need some R&R, but the rotation seems a little arrse about face.

If there is a big offensive starting in the spring, we would to well to get some more serious mountain boys in the hills to grab the feckers as they cross the border.
After months of marching, bulling and sh1t shovelling, I would expect these units to be well up for this....

What makes you think that only RM and Paras are capable of hard fighting?
 
#9
paveway_3 said:
Giblets said:
Interesting one that. I wonder if they are all going out with Snatch Landies, or better still, bicycles.

Seems to me that the harder core of our forces is coming home just before the harder fighting is about to start. I understand that they've had a hard time of it and that they need some R&R, but the rotation seems a little arrse about face.

If there is a big offensive starting in the spring, we would to well to get some more serious mountain boys in the hills to grab the feckers as they cross the border.
Bloody harder core? You cheeky git, you have no clue what you are on about,your post proves that.Yet another Para/Marine media guru!
I knew this post was going to bite me on the arrse. Don't get me wrong, I'm not insulting the other Reg'ts when I say that, as they are all really stirling dudes are damned good in a punch up, but are they mountain troops?
 
#10
Do we really want to fight them in the mountains, or do we want to bring them down into the plains, in the open, going fangs out after our 'Afghan Poppy co-operative' farmers?.......

Entice them down , banjo the f**k out of them, then let them retreat to hole up in the mountains, doing themselves no good and reducing support in their own ranks. Simultaneous with this, cut off the supply lines out of Pakistan and close the door there.

Far better to my mind, to have our troops waiting for them in pre-prepared positions with excellent IDF support gagging to send them to the perfumed houri's , then gadding about the hills that THEY hold the advantage in.
 
#11
Giblets said:
paveway_3 said:
Giblets said:
Interesting one that. I wonder if they are all going out with Snatch Landies, or better still, bicycles.

Seems to me that the harder core of our forces is coming home just before the harder fighting is about to start. I understand that they've had a hard time of it and that they need some R&R, but the rotation seems a little arrse about face.

If there is a big offensive starting in the spring, we would to well to get some more serious mountain boys in the hills to grab the feckers as they cross the border.
Bloody harder core? You cheeky git, you have no clue what you are on about,your post proves that.Yet another Para/Marine media guru!
I knew this post was going to bite me on the arrse. Don't get me wrong, I'm not insulting the other Reg'ts when I say that, as they are all really stirling dudes are damned good in a punch up, but are they mountain troops?
Of all the footage I've seen very little seems to be in the mountains. RM have a Mountain and Arctic Warfare cadre (or used to) but I've never heard of any other units being specialised mountain troops. I'd throw the shovel away now if I were you Giblets ;)
 
#12
PartTimePongo said:
Do we really want to fight them in the mountains, or do we want to bring them down into the plains, in the open, going fangs out after our 'Afghan Poppy co-operative' farmers?.......

Entice them down , banjo the f**k out of them, then let them retreat to hole up in the mountains, doing themselves no good and reducing support in their own ranks.

Far better to my mind, to have our troops waiting for them in pre-prepared positions with excellent IDF support waiting to send them to the perfumed houri's , then gadding about the hills that THEY hold the advantage in.
Problem with that is if we let them get out of the mountians, we haven't got them contained and they'll spread out amongst genpop and do the sneaky. They aren't exactly going to form up on the plains and march on our guns.

Shovel thrown, I'll get my coat . . .
 
#13
Gibblets it appears to be a bit of a back peddle there mate.So who are the ''Mountain troops'' in the British army? Paras have done a fantastic job in Afgan as are the Royal Marines.Dont forget there are plenty of other regiments in the British army with the same high standards.
 
#14
And the problem is, we haven't enough troops to take control and contain in the mountains.

We've been trying to do that since 18longtime , it doesn't work. Even when my father was leading patrols up in NWF province, it was like trying to plait fog getting them to stand and fight , and that was just against lawless tribesmen who were up for a bit of mischief, not religously motivated, or well paid zealots.

If they feel they are losing support and revenue, they will wish to stop that happening, and that will force them into desperate measures.

We'll then be waiting when they do. Set the trap , bait it well, then wait.
 
#15
Gibblets it appears to be a bit of a back peddle there mate.So who are the ''Mountain troops'' in the British army? Paras have done a fantastic job in Afgan as are the Royal Marines.Dont forget there are plenty of other regiments in the British army with the same high standards.
The Army triedit out when the 'Bde of specialisations' idea abounded. Jungle Bn, desert Bn, mountains etc. I think the mountain specialisation was meant to cater for the ground beneath the snow line rather than the arctic training the marines do. Needless to say there was no money for vehs and equipment, nor any real doctrine sanctioned so thus it became a damp squib.

Stick any British Infantry Bn there and they would perform as well as the Paras or Marines pound for pound - ie bloody well. Just give them the kit and heavy weapons!
 
#16
Surprises me we have an 'extra' infantry battalion.
If Gordon 'I'm in Charge' Brown finds out, it will be for the chop for sure!
All this talk about only Para and RM can do the 'hard bit' is a little silly as the briefest glimpse of the exploits of all our regiments shows. Very few Paras or RM at Rorke's Drift or Monte Cassino as I recall.
However, as the Paras cannot parachute for some years (courtesy of joined-up government) and as RM have no more ships to marine about in, I suggest that all six units are sent to Germany for a good long tour. After all, it is some years since the Boxheads had the South Wales Borderers and the Cameronians together in Minden. 1 PARA and 40 Cdo RM together in a snug little stadt should do wonders for the European Soviet Union.. Who knows, it might bring the whole rotten edifice down!
 
#17
Alsacien said:
Giblets said:
Interesting one that. I wonder if they are all going out with Snatch Landies, or better still, bicycles.

Seems to me that the harder core of our forces is coming home just before the harder fighting is about to start. I understand that they've had a hard time of it and that they need some R&R, but the rotation seems a little arrse about face.

If there is a big offensive starting in the spring, we would to well to get some more serious mountain boys in the hills to grab the feckers as they cross the border.
After months of marching, bulling and sh1t shovelling, I would expect these units to be well up for this....

What makes you think that only RM and Paras are capable of hard fighting?
I cannot speak for the other regiments but being a gren wife I can tell you they were in Iraq last year and will have been home the minimum 6 months before going to Afghanistan for a scheduled to be 8 months tour. Of course due to the heavy schedule this past year they haven't done a great deal of marching etc and yes they are all well up for it and looking forward to doing some proper soldiering
 
#18
The issue was raised yesterday 22 January 2007 in Parliament as recorded at Columns 1132 to 1135 of Hansard for 22 May 2006 when the Government were asked if they were going to reinforce OP HERRICK but refused to say so.

Hansard records an interaction between characters attending the ‘Mad Hatters’ Tea Party and the surreal debate is about as Bizarre as the one that proceeded it on the size of the Army which took place at Columns 1130 – 1132.

In any event, on both issues, the Parliamentary Under Secretary, to use a military analogy, comes under effective enemy fire, he then reacts by throwing smoke, the enemy opposition begin firing in all directions while the Minister withdraws wounded but not dead!

On the question of whether the Government intended to reinforce OP HERRICK with an additional Infantry Battalion, a question posited by Patrick Mercer, Des Brown obfuscates by claiming that Patrick Mercer peddles dishonesty. Brown is chided by the Speaker with the outrageously ludicrous comment that could have been written by Lewis Carroll himself, that he, the speaker does not believe that members would be dishonest. Brown then responds by giving as an example of dishonesty, the’ lie’ that faulty ammunition was provided to our troops.

Ho, Ho, Ho Pinnochio!

The Minister is, of course an inveterate liar since the honesty of the government was completely and utterly blown out of the water on this thread which exposed the lie in all of it’s detail and found the same lie issue by Drayson to the House of Lords!

Members of Parliament do not lie?

Hah!

They lie through their back teeth and the maddening thing is, there is nothing whatsoever that Parliament can do about it even when it is blatantly exposed the for all the world to see.

The great sadness is that the quality of this debate and others like it on such issues takes place against a background where our young men and women are being killed and maimed almost daily having been sent there by those taking tea with Alice.

It seems that here, once again, that is not Parliament which has become the forum to which the public may legitimately look to for the truth of that which affects their lives, dispensed from her Majesty's Ministers. Rather, it is the pages of Mr Murdoch's newspapers!

How sad is that!

Regards and best wishes
Iolis
 
#20
I do not doubt for one second that any Brit "Battalion" sent out will do their duty and be an example to all that follow.
john
The Paras and Marines have served and fought courageously.
 

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