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Extinction Rebellion protesters - what to do?

It's got nothing to do with "bottling out", "fella"! It's just that there's little point in me (as a Socialist) attempting to debate with you (as a willing victim of, and an avid believer in, lifelong Capitalist propaganda) when we'll never come to a conclusion. You have your point of view and I have mine.

You're not even willing to concede that the Extinction Rebellion folks have a valid case - which is that we're rapidly destroying the earth and the very foundations on which our survival as a species depends. But as long as we perish with loadsa folks having loadsa dosh, it doesn't seem to be very important to you.

MsG
EbkcpnPUMAgI1Za.jpg
 

RBMK

LE
On the contrary, I fully believe that Extinction Rebellion do have a totally valid case, and I would even go so far as to say that I support their cause in principle.

It's just that they go about carrying out the discussion in a totally pointless manner which is calculated to piss more people off than it persuades. Not to mention that the amount of money and fuel spent on their pointless demonstrations contributes to CO2 and global warming.

But let's look at the demographic for the protestors, which is generally the well off "champagne socialists" living in the South East of England and the ones who have children called Tarquin and Jocasta, own a Range Rover Sport and will leave their tent and rubbish at Glastonbury having spent several hundred quid on a ticket.

There are better ways to make a point than screwing up the city of London.
 

DaManBugs

On ROPS
On ROPs
Book Reviewer
On the contrary, I fully believe that Extinction Rebellion do have a totally valid case, and I would even go so far as to say that I support their cause in principle.

It's just that they go about carrying out the discussion in a totally pointless manner which is calculated to piss more people off than it persuades. Not to mention that the amount of money and fuel spent on their pointless demonstrations contributes to CO2 and global warming.

But let's look at the demographic for the protestors, which is generally the well off "champagne socialists" living in the South East of England and the ones who have children called Tarquin and Jocasta, own a Range Rover Sport and will leave their tent and rubbish at Glastonbury having spent several hundred quid on a ticket.

There are better ways to make a point than screwing up the city of London.
So how can folks get the idea across that we're digging our own grave? There have been grave warnings of the impending ecological disaster for decades, yet the politicians (of every stripe) have never heeded them because they're in hock to the very Capitalists who're causing the damage in the first place. Even Karl Marx remarked that the continuing disruption of the connection between nature and humans was going to cause very real problems in the future, and he was writing in the 19th Century!

We've had years and years to do something about how we're destroying the earth, but no-one has done anything positive to reverse the trend. It should be obvious that we can't rely on a quick "technological fix" suddenly emerging, but even at this late date and with no time to spare, we're still heading for extinction with no-one really believing it and no-one really caring. For the sake of a quick buck, a few greedy Capitalists are fully prepared to offer the rest of humankind up for sacrifice. Doesn't that scare you?

MsG
 
We've had years and years to do something about how we're destroying the earth, but no-one has done anything positive to reverse the trend. It should be obvious that we can't rely on a quick "technological fix" suddenly emerging, but even at this late date and with no time to spare, we're still heading for extinction with no-one really believing it and no-one really caring. For the sake of a quick buck, a few greedy Capitalists are fully prepared to offer the rest of humankind up for sacrifice. Doesn't that scare you?

MsG

No, I'm just scared you're going to 'fella' me in a private message

It's enough to give anyone sleepless nights

I mean what might come afterwards, you might send a picture of your desert eagle after you've retrieved it from your Swiss bank account, using the code 007 to unlock the briefcase containing said desert eagle of course...
 

RBMK

LE
It's not a capitalist / communist thing.

The four biggest polluters in the world are:

America
China
Russia
India

Based on CO2 emissions.

I have a friend who has worked in China for the past 10 years and his comments on their overall environmental performance are frightening. Chinese industry is destroying their countryside and rivers apace. They are improving glacially slowly.

India is hampered by their large agrarian population burning wood and kerosene in open fires for cooking and heating plus an inefficient coal burning electricity generation system.

Russia is desperate for money and exporting oil and gas in competition with the Gulf states. Two new huge gas pipelines have been built for export in the past 3 years.

America is full of stupid people including the president.

There is no simple answer and quoting the "communism is good" argument is naive at best and fatuous in reality. A lot of the solution is education, technology and ultimately population decrease.

ETA, a couple of thousand people pratting about in Pall Mall is going to achieve the square root of SFA. What is needed is political lobbying, votes, and education.
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
It's got nothing to do with "bottling out", "fella"! It's just that there's little point in me (as a Socialist) attempting to debate with you (as a willing victim of, and an avid believer in, lifelong Capitalist propaganda) when we'll never come to a conclusion. You have your point of view and I have mine.
Here's an alternative view
It's got nothing to do with "bottling out", "fella"! It's just that there's little point in me (as a willing victim of, and an avid believer in, lifelong Socialist propaganda) attempting to debate with you (as a Capitalist) when we'll never come to a conclusion. You have your point of view and I have mine.
1. Which is more likely?
2. Does it make any difference to the subject in hand? (the answer is 'No') - so why bother pushing your tired old agenda into any and every topic you can focus on once the Toilet Duck wears off a bit?
 
Last edited:
So how can folks get the idea across that we're digging our own grave? There have been grave warnings of the impending ecological disaster for decades,
And exactly how many of these grave warnings have actually come to fruition? Perhaps that influences people when chicken little is telling us the sky is falling and nope, still nothing.

As for your assertion that the human race will become extinct, I suggest that the first thing that will become extinct is the cosy lifestyle that these alleged XR activities covet so much.

The human race will exist somewhere, even if it takes a massive reduction in numbers along the way.
 
And exactly how many of these grave warnings have actually come to fruition? Perhaps that influences people when chicken little is telling us the sky is falling and nope, still nothing.

As for your assertion that the human race will become extinct, I suggest that the first thing that will become extinct is the cosy lifestyle that these alleged XR activities covet so much.

The human race will exist somewhere, even if it takes a massive reduction in numbers along the way.

Surely all of these warnings have come to pass by now, as we know climate change experts are never wrong

climatechange.jpeg
 

DaManBugs

On ROPS
On ROPs
Book Reviewer
It's not a capitalist / communist thing.

The four biggest polluters in the world are:

America
China
Russia
India

Based on CO2 emissions.

I have a friend who has worked in China for the past 10 years and his comments on their overall environmental performance are frightening. Chinese industry is destroying their countryside and rivers apace. They are improving glacially slowly.

India is hampered by their large agrarian population burning wood and kerosene in open fires for cooking and heating plus an inefficient coal burning electricity generation system.

Russia is desperate for money and exporting oil and gas in competition with the Gulf states. Two new huge gas pipelines have been built for export in the past 3 years.

America is full of stupid people including the president.

There is no simple answer and quoting the "communism is good" argument is naive at best and fatuous in reality. A lot of the solution is education, technology and ultimately population decrease.

ETA, a couple of thousand people pratting about in Pall Mall is going to achieve the square root of SFA. What is needed is political lobbying, votes, and education.
I absolutely agree with most of your points. However, I disagree on your opinion that the argument "Communism is good" is fatuous and naive. I realise it's (very) far-fetched, but one of the principles of Communism is that money becomes superfluous. Considering that "money" is the key mover of all the damage being done to the environment around the world, it's worth conceding that its absence would go a long way to resolving the immediate problems.

I also partly disagree that "a couple of thousand people pratting in Pall Mall is going to achieve nothing". But what if it was a couple of million? Moreover, what if it was many thousands (millions?) more across the whole planet? Would that be enough to start the political lobbying, votes and education you mention? Would we then finally see politicians taking the subject seriously?

MsG
 
I absolutely agree with most of your points. However, I disagree on your opinion that the argument "Communism is good" is fatuous and naive. I realise it's (very) far-fetched, but one of the principles of Communism is that money becomes superfluous. Considering that "money" is the key mover of all the damage being done to the environment around the world, it's worth conceding that its absence would go a long way to resolving the immediate problems.

The flaw in that plan is that there is a difference between the real world and a make believe fantasy.
 

RBMK

LE
I absolutely agree with most of your points. However, I disagree on your opinion that the argument "Communism is good" is fatuous and naive. I realise it's (very) far-fetched, but one of the principles of Communism is that money becomes superfluous. Considering that "money" is the key mover of all the damage being done to the environment around the world, it's worth conceding that its absence would go a long way to resolving the immediate problems.

I also partly disagree that "a couple of thousand people pratting in Pall Mall is going to achieve nothing". But what if it was a couple of million? Moreover, what if it was many thousands (millions?) more across the whole planet? Would that be enough to start the political lobbying, votes and education you mention? Would we then finally see politicians taking the subject seriously?

MsG
You are on fantasy island.
Money will always be needed to facilitate trade of goods and services.
It will never be "a few million" protestors, it will be those champagne socialists to which I referred previously plus some of the unwaged sponging new age hippies.
 
You are on fantasy island.
Money will always be needed to facilitate trade of goods and services.
It will never be "a few million" protestors, it will be those champagne socialists to which I referred previously plus some of the unwaged sponging new age hippies.

And those bellends that turn up to wave their silly little placards around regardless of the protest just so they can pretend there is some meaning to their lives.

AKA the SWP.
 
So how can folks get the idea across that we're digging our own grave? There have been grave warnings of the impending ecological disaster for decades, yet the politicians (of every stripe) have never heeded them because they're in hock to the very Capitalists who're causing the damage in the first place. Even Karl Marx remarked that the continuing disruption of the connection between nature and humans was going to cause very real problems in the future, and he was writing in the 19th Century!

We've had years and years to do something about how we're destroying the earth, but no-one has done anything positive to reverse the trend. It should be obvious that we can't rely on a quick "technological fix" suddenly emerging, but even at this late date and with no time to spare, we're still heading for extinction with no-one really believing it and no-one really caring. For the sake of a quick buck, a few greedy Capitalists are fully prepared to offer the rest of humankind up for sacrifice. Doesn't that scare you?

MsG
So Communists/Marxists NEVER caused any ecological damage to the planet?

Chernobyl?

The Atomic Lake in East Kazakhstan?

Lake Karachay?

Techa River?

Aral Sea?


Those bad Kap-it-tal-lists eh tovarich?
 
And those bellends that turn up to wave their silly little placards around regardless of the protest just so they can pretend there is some meaning to their lives.

AKA the SWP.

And then going to eat in MaccyD's after the protest
 
The Soviet union was an environmental disaster out of the league of any western nations, whole were left toxic and uninhabitable, the countryside and forests are littered with broken down and discarded plant, tools and machinery, no one owned anything and so no one looked after anything they just used and abused it then dumped it and indented for a new one, scrap metal was worth nothing and so no one bothered to recycle it, there are now people making a capitalist living by salvaging the huge amount of waste metal and other rescouces lying around in Russia.

No one gave a toss about pollution, only targets that had to be reached at any cost, either to the environment or workers lives. Socialists are having a laugh pretending they ever cared for the environment, their system was the biggest polluter and waster of rescouces ever devised.
 
On the contrary, I fully believe that Extinction Rebellion do have a totally valid case, and I would even go so far as to say that I support their cause in principle.

It's just that they go about carrying out the discussion in a totally pointless manner which is calculated to piss more people off than it persuades. Not to mention that the amount of money and fuel spent on their pointless demonstrations contributes to CO2 and global warming.
Aye, and the
But let's look at the demographic for the protestors, which is generally the well off "champagne socialists" living in the South East of England and the ones who have children called Tarquin and Jocasta, own a Range Rover Sport and will leave their tent and rubbish at Glastonbury having spent several hundred quid on a ticket.

There are better ways to make a point than screwing up the city of London.
It's not a capitalist / communist thing.

The four biggest polluters in the world are:

America
China
Russia
India

Based on CO2 emissions.

I have a friend who has worked in China for the past 10 years and his comments on their overall environmental performance are frightening. Chinese industry is destroying their countryside and rivers apace. They are improving glacially slowly.

India is hampered by their large agrarian population burning wood and kerosene in open fires for cooking and heating plus an inefficient coal burning electricity generation system.

Russia is desperate for money and exporting oil and gas in competition with the Gulf states. Two new huge gas pipelines have been built for export in the past 3 years.

America is full of stupid people including the president.

There is no simple answer and quoting the "communism is good" argument is naive at best and fatuous in reality. A lot of the solution is education, technology and ultimately population decrease.

ETA, a couple of thousand people pratting about in Pall Mall is going to achieve the square root of SFA. What is needed is political lobbying, votes, and education.
The most polluted capital city in the world? Ulaanbataar, Mongolia. Every domicile (many people in UB live in yurts) has a coal-burning stove, and smokeless coal has yet to make any impact.

Funny how former Soviet countries lag behind, isn't it? There's nothing wrong with the nomadic Mongolian way of life, but the Soviets forced everyone into the cities where it no longer made sense, hence the pollution problems; Mongolia is a country with a massive square footage of land per person, and all land is traditionally available to the population for settlement and grazing.

However, the Soviets feared a resurgence of Mongolian nationalism and forced everyone into cities (Ulaanbataar = Red Hero), and the lands rumoured to be the resting place of Chinggis Khaan were declared off limits.

The jealous god of communism once more leaves his scar, as with so many other places. So much for 'living with nature', eh, Bugs?
 

TamH70

MIA
So Communists/Marxists NEVER caused any ecological damage to the planet?

Chernobyl?

The Atomic Lake in East Kazakhstan?

Lake Karachay?

Techa River?

Aral Sea?


Those bad Kap-it-tal-lists eh tovarich?
You missed out Kyshtym and Sverdlovsk from that list, but that's fine - the Glorious Soviet Union did so as well.
 
The Soviet union was an environmental disaster out of the league of any western nations, whole were left toxic and uninhabitable, the countryside and forests are littered with broken down and discarded plant, tools and machinery, no one owned anything and so no one looked after anything they just used and abused it then dumped it and indented for a new one, scrap metal was worth nothing and so no one bothered to recycle it, there are now people making a capitalist living by salvaging the huge amount of waste metal and other rescouces lying around in Russia.

No one gave a toss about pollution, only targets that had to be reached at any cost, either to the environment or workers lives. Socialists are having a laugh pretending they ever cared for the environment, their system was the biggest polluter and waster of rescouces ever devised.
Yes but you must remember that it was the wrong model of communism. If only they'd tried the right model. We still haven't seen the right model used anywhere in the world but one day brothers and sisters, one day the paradise of true communism will be found.



Not in my lifetime though.
 

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