Experienced RAMC reply please!

Had this in the Joining up thread, but no replies, so apologies for starting a specific one, but i need some advice.

I need some information and an experienced opinion on a failed application from a wider family member to join the RAMC. Current and up to speed RAMC with ACIO or similar recruiting/training experience preferred. PM please. Thanks in advance.
Had this in the Joining up thread, but no replies, so apologies for starting a specific one, but i need some advice.

I need some information and an experienced opinion on a failed application from a wider family member to join the RAMC. Current and up to speed RAMC with ACIO or similar recruiting/training experience preferred. PM please. Thanks in advance.
1) Why did the application fail- Medical, security, qualifications, criminal record?

2) What were they trying to join as? The medical services have a lot of different trade groups.

These factors are important and will influence the ability of responders to give you a helpful answer.
Firstly, thanks to whoever moved the thread into the correct place.

I am in possesion of 2 letters - 1 from the ADSC and the other from her GP so i'll quote them verbatim.

The letter from ADSC in Midlothian states she "is not eligable for military service due to Deliberate Self Harm on more than one occasion". GP says " xxxxx had an episode of self harm in 2002 on a history of extreme family problems when she was aged 15 (my addition - parents splitting up) Since that time xxxx has had no mental health problems. She has rarely attended the surgery. She has not required any psychiatric treatment"

ADSC letter - In addition, please note that your history of asthma requiring treatment until September 2008 would have had a bearing on your eligibility

GP letter - " xxxx attended the surgery on one occasion in September 2008 when she had a cough and a sore throat, it was reported then that she was wheezy and was given a Salbutamol inhaler to use. She did not use this inhaler at that time and has not required one since. Apart from that episode, she has not required any treatment for asthma since the age of 10"

The ADSC letter goes on to explain that she has a right to appeal, and the GP letter states that they (GP) would fully support this appeal.

She wants to be a CMT, and has numerous good grades from school.

So, what are her chances on appeal? What is the recruiting like for CMT's presently?

The original application was for the TA with a view to Regular service.
"Apart from that episode, she has not required any treatment for asthma" That could be your problem
I am not anything to do with RAMC but since I was discharged for developing Asthma and then accepted back in I think my comments may be valid.

The rules quite clearly state that any episode of Asthma as reported by a doctor means that you cannot join or remain in the armed forces. Upon rejoning I had to have 4 symptom clear years since my last "episode" My GP was asked to supply details of perscriptions I had to make sure I had not been using an inhaler plus I had to have a slightly more intense medical and supporting letter from the GP.

So, advice from me would be either get her to become a Civvie Ambulance Technician or similer for 2 years and re-apply with job relevant qualifications (which the RAMC will have a harder time ignoring) and the 4 years clean bill of health OR to appeal, remembering that the RAMC would prefer medical qualifications rather than "good school grades", so if they have several folk on their books wanting to join, they will more than likely take the "clean bill of health, qualified" person than the "possible asthma sufferer".

There is nothing like life experience and relevant qhalifications to tip the balance!!!

Whatever the decision, I hope she gets to where she wants to be.
On the first point, I can't help.

On the second however.. I was in the same situation, was issued a perscription for one when i had a chest infection. Never used it. Came back to bite me in the ass when i applied for the regs. The recruiting office told me to get a letter form the doc advising why it was issued and if there has been any problems since. Got said letter. Application is now in the hands of the army and we'll wait and see. Will drop back if/when I get more info.

Best of luck to her though..

The rejection on the grounds of DSH may be a mistake if there was genuinely only one episode of DSH over three years ago. Repetition is generally an absolute show stopper. An appeal is well worth it if, as you imply, they have made an error. The Asthma episode is only two years ago, so they may defer and tell her to reapply in another year or two. However, the comment about not having any other problems since the age of ten does suggest that she had childhood asthma. This makes the history of more recent problems seem more ominous. Even a mild reoccurence of childhood asthma is a risk indicator and may well constitute grounds for rejection.

Probably important to also note that whilst they shouldn't really affect the interpretation of medical recruiting guidance, manpower considerations do have an influence. In a poor recruiting environment, people will often get taken "at risk" medically. If they can pick and choose as they can at present, then they will be more fussy.
1-do not go civvie. the mil and civvie qualies are not compatable and its 4 years wasted.
2-go TA first. the medical will be done by an MO who is in the unit THAT YOU CAN TALK TO. They can talk to the GP.
3-Get the GP to say she has never had asthma-diagnosis is just shorthand,and if she had an URTI and Ventiolin-that could be acceptable. here in singapore,GPs routinely give bronchodilators for URTIs.
4-get a specialist opinion from the local hospital-see GP for appointment. Get them to say no asthma.
5- re self harm-well see things you do come back to haunt you.
thats why foks generally dont do the jeremy kyle bit and go over the top.
again- get a phychiatric referral and get that opinion lodged,if it was an adolescent reaction to something as you suggest-get it put down as that.
6-by that time(say a year to 2),you have specialist opinions that say everything is medically fine and an army record with a COs fitness certificate.
Then re apply reg.
oh and check everything lodged- dont say anything that can be taken the wrong way.
Firstly, I don't know you or your relative so none of what I say is personal. You say that she self-harmed due to the extreme stress of her parents marriage break-up. The risk is that, if presented with another stressful situation, her reaction will be the same. In my day your relative would have been referred to an RAMC psychiatrist for an assessment of suitability, whether that happens now, I'm afraid I don't know.
Unfortunately GPs can claim extra funding for asthmatics which has lead to some fairly loose diagnoses in the past. The RAMC will require positive proof that either there has been a misdiagnosis or that childhood episodes have now fully been resolved and that there have been no further incidences since.
A visit to her local RAMC TA unit may well help, she can get advice from both TA and Regs and may even be able to chat to a TA MO who can give her good advice and may even be able to make a few representations on her behalf. The thing is, if she shows herself to be determined and resourceful and those at her local RAMC TA find her a good egg then it wont do her case any harm.
She should appeal the decision. This means that an Occ Health consultant at recruiting group will cast a closer and objective eye over her case and decide whether she is eligible and,if not, whether she ever will be. Lots of people are successful at appeal.

Civi qualifications will cut no mustard when it comes to getting a job in the army. Passing ADSC is what is required. Those that pass get a grade A-D. Put simply, the grade A's get the first dibs at the traing places followed by the B's and then (if there are any jobs left) the C's followed by the D's. The best way to an A is to be fit, keen, knowledgeable, a team player, to put max effort in all of the time and to have good basic skills (lit & num).
Deliberate Self Harm would ,as far as I know stop anybody getting in the door,numerous attempts would definatley do that,I work in a Psychiatric enviroment and have experience of people who self harm,they do it for various reason's poor self esteem,poor self image,abuse,trauma- unfortunatley,I'm sorry if it is not what you want to hear, but these are factors that the M.O's will have talken into account ,for instance what if they were in some severly stressful situations in basic training, afghanistan and reverted to type,what a shit storm that would cause,once again I am sorry if this doesn't sit well with you.
A diagnosis of asthma which is going to prevent someone from following a lifelong career really should be supported by spirometry and reversibility tests. It's a brave GP that makes this diagnosis (with the associated career implications) in this case. Anyway - doesn't actually sound like he has diagnosed her with asthma just "wheezing" - she may have had viral associated-bronchospasm (which isn't the same as asthma) which did respond to bronchodilators. Looking at what you've said about the "wheezing" I'd be pretty sure this one would be thrown out on appeal.

Regarding the DSH, however, by all means appeal but to be honest I wouldn't get your hopes too high - and she really should ask herself if it's the wisest thing to do (ie join the Army) - as a previous poster said, if that was her response to a stressful situation then, is it really that likely to be any different now (genuine question - clearly I don't know her so not judging) ? There are suicides in theatre every year. She does no-one any favours if she isn't honest with herself - that said, it's difficult to predict I guess - hence the reluctance for taking someone with a history of it, even once.

Very sorry to sound negative.


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