Expenses fiddles likely on MoD payroll system

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by badal, Aug 5, 2009.

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  1. You might have a quick skim of the search function as I think this is already covered in another couple of threads. Not to suggest that this bloke is not a complete c*ck.
  2. Thats the 3rd time so far. Try HERE.
  3. Cucking,

    I think your link is to the malingering civil servant thread (unless my browser's screwed).

    The original post was about JPA claims.

    I am sure there are other threads about this embarrassing debacle/ incredibly useful and sophisticated system, but am too much of an IT biff to find them. Curiously enough, I was also too much of a mong to claim anything.
  4. I still haven't figured out how to claim one...

    What with the pre-approval, then they actual claim, and then the filling out of some bonk form, and then the reporting to the RAO with all my receipts.....

    And JPA makes it easier to claim, and even steal.... HOW?

    But then I am still getting my head around the chip shop in unit "Leave Request Form" with dates AD and FP (a la old way) and dates from and to (a la new way) to be signed by my CoC, and then submitted to the Admin SNCO with a screen print of my JPA request and a screen shot of my leave balance.... nicely stapled together!!!!
  5. With my pedantry over links, I forgot one important point.

    I find it a bit rich that the NAO finds fault with JPA (and the associated inference that the Forces will cane it for all its worth) when, as I seem to remember, anything above £5 has to have a receipt. My apologies if this has changed in the last year.

    This is the same NAO that reports to politicians on generous per diems and up to £20 with no receipt?

    And don't even get me started on the Sir John Bourn saga. See link and Private Eye for more details.


    All far too cosy, methinks.
  6. Err, the post was edited after my reply to a completely new subject (which I think has also been done before too!). wehappyfew also replied to the original subject as it was.
  7. Fair one. I'll get back in my box.
  8. "The National Audit Office said £155m of spending on radio systems used in Afghanistan could not be accounted for.
    It also said its payroll system was inefficient and open to fraud, leading one senior Conservative MP to say the department must "get a grip".
    The MoD also faces criticism that the system used to pay salary and allowances to 191,000 service personnel was "unfit for purpose".
    The Joint Personnel Administration system was full of errors with nearly 15% of payments - worth an estimated £140m - either containing mistakes or unable to be substantiated.
    At the same time, the NAO said there has been a growth in suspected fraud in expenses claims, which were subject to limited - and, in some cases, no - back-up checks.
    "Although the MoD has made some improvements to its payroll and HR systems over the past year, I consider that there are important issues which have not been fully addressed," said Amyas Morse, the NAO's chief executive said.
    "Further significant changes are required."
    The MoD said errors in the payroll system were being addressed and its priority was to ensure that all serving personnel continued to be paid on time."

    HUMMMMM ---
  9. This is something my missus got through:

    £140m of MOD payroll errors

    The NAO report on the Ministry of Defence accounts reveals that £140m of payroll errors have been uncovered in the last year – that’s a lot of helicopters!

    In 2008-09, the £8.9 billion of staff costs for over 191,000 Service personnel were administered using the MOD’s Joint Personnel Administration (JPA) payroll system. The JPA system relies heavily on HR staff entering data about personnel in their unit. This data is then subject to limited further checks, which means any errors are unlikely to be detected. The NAO found that within a sample they checked, 10.1% of payments were incorrect leading to their estimate of an overall loss of £140m. Armed forces personnel can also submit their own expenses and receive payment without any authorisation; a situation that the NAO feels has led to a growth in suspected fraud.

    Are your procedures robust? If you are unsure, why not enrol for the IPP Foundation Degree in Payroll Management and over the three years you will obtain the knowledge and security that your payroll department is operating at maximum efficiency and in a controlled environment. More details on how to register can be found on the IPP website.

    I don't agree with the bit about simply approving your own expenses. Surely your claims go to the AO who decides who gets audited.
  10. There are parts of the MoD where built in costs for fraud have been less than 25% of what it has actually cost, to the point where detecting it is no longer cost effective. Although I'm not going to name which.

    The MoD Police are re-structuring to basically just investigate fraud.

    Turns out everyone's got their hand in the till, service personnel, civil servants and contracted civvies. At least private companies put in a receipt when the rip off the tax payer. These fcukers don't even do that. :roll:
  11. Unless there is some scam that I am missing, I don't follow your logic. For every claim on JPA you are liable to be audited and if that happens you have to produce receipts to support the claim. I assume at that point, no chitty, no pity.
  12. If you want to risk your pension for a couple of hundred quid, crack on. I have been audited more often than I haven't, so, even if I was inclined to cheat, I doubt I would get away with it.

    Make MPs use JPA.
  13. It was ever thus - computers.

    The difference that I perceive is that:

    'a military person erroneously claiming' £10 loses: job, home and pension.

    an MP stealing thousands of pounds simply 'carries on' - and goes on being paid, living at home and building a pension.
  14. JPA was designed to save money by cutting back on admin staff - just like most MOD beancounter thinking - it's save to spend in the future.

    Funny that some folks are using it as a 13th paycheque, we didn't think that would ever happen when the JPA expenses system was first presented to us......