Exercising the logistic chain

#41
I recall one time where we exercised with Live ammo and the ORP. Memory is hazy as to when, but I think I was with 2CS at the time (possibly pre Telic 6?). As I recall, 1 UK Armd Div were very twitchy about us playing with the real stuff, but in the end, the only write off was for 2 24hr rat packs that got crushed. I scared the crap out of a couple of young lads who were handballing a load of small arms ammo off of a flatrack. They were cradling each H83 in both arms and gingerly carrying each one to the pallets they were cross loading to, until I grabbed a couple of H83's and lobbed them towards the pallets.
You’ll be surprised how much ammo gets written off, once you rip the Ammo seals on a box, more often than not it will be written off, especially SAA and Pyro.

That’s were effective Ammo management comes into its own.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#42
Perhaps that needs exercising
Actually in forward positions such as recce screens or dug in OPs that's when you will be expected to rely on orps and rotation of troops in the an out of fwd posns becomes the difficult and necessary to rehearse task. On big ftx we would hand over positions ammo and support weapons if needed after all they belong to the army not the soldier. All aspects can and should be practised where possible
 
#43
I’ll defend the RLC on that one.

The woeful lack of helicopters compounded that one.

However, as an interesting dit, I used to know a STAB lance Jack from a logger unit. Their training one weekend consisted of transferring all of the stores from one wharehouse at Donnington into another..

That was achieved in 36 hours using STABS who were used to working in wharehouses. Their regular counterparts claimed it would’ve taken five days to do it
In the old days a fire would fix all that toing and frowing
 

AfghanAndy

On ROPS
On ROPs
#44
In the old days a fire would fix all that toing and frowing
True.

However the point I was trying to make was that an AR RLC unit doing a specific job is much more efficient. Possibly because they do that kind of thing as a day job. Partly because they don’t have the time to dick around skiving.
 
Last edited:

ugly

LE
Moderator
#45
#46
Best not to get me started....

The log chain doesn't seem to be tested until ops, its not a great way to do it!
The "log chain" has been utterly decimated at each and every stage over the last 20 years and there is no let up to that. We routinely have non-loggies filling DCOS posts in Bde HQs and the MOD is hell-bent on contractorising everything non teeth arm.

There is never, ever time money or desire for anything but the most cursory dabble in logistics, either at the tactical or strategic level.

When it comes to cuts it is the CSS are that gets battered and entire capabilities have been sacrificed in order to keep some county regiment or other hanging on in there.

From toilet paper (lack of) to more serious stuff (GW1 - Why can't I get my tanks fixed?) the teeth arms led British Army have utterly failed to live up to their oft declared mantra that "logistics are really important"

And for you @stacker1 the rot set in when the ink dried on the LSR.
 
#47
Excluding the old corps ftx in BAOR at what point and to what extent is the logistic chain exercised. Is the ammo and rations ever issued all the way from depot to trench? Does the RLC ever get to exercise as per war role? Do unit's even deliver fresh hot food in the field anymore?
HERETIC! If we did that, and it didn't work, we wouldn't get the required training output and value from the overall exercise objective, so we'll just 'magic move' the loggie shite in the same way as we'll ignore the lack of real world CIS connectivity by running the exercise at UNCLAS so we can communicate over t'internet and by mobile phone.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#48
sadly there isn't an angry or frustrated icon
 
#49
What ever happens I think Trippier is England’s man of the tournament.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#50
the MOD is hell-bent on contractorising everything non teeth arm.
I recall the KBR tank transporter bid and thinking that its all going to hell in a hand cart, just in time doesn't work even organisations that spout lean need stores for supplies.
 
#51
The extent of exercising the logistic system currently involves attaching a large loggie troop to a battlegroup exercise in places like Kenya with the idea that this will provide meaningful training. The issue is that the battlegroup isnt used to having that additional loggie support, and has thus sorted their own logistics already. All ammo, orps and gs are already dealt with by the battlegroup or exercising DS with the loggies providing no more capability besides drivers and the odd ammo storeman.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#52
In 1984 I was part of 6 airmobile. it was a year of trials and the year culminated in Lionheart but for us the best thing was a late July/August at Sennelager doing company and Bn attacks and defences ten months after coming back from an Op Banner and 8 months after doing Sennelager up to and including company live serials. The field firing, (I cant recall how long it lasted 2 or 4 weeks) culminated in Bn live attacks with 2 mortar Plns firing us in, 42 milan posts firing and a battery of abbots plus some Dutch air force raining down death from above. The Bn got through over 1 million rounds of SAA in that package and on the final Bn attack a 4 tonner with hiab was choppered in to bring ammo forward to each company as it dropped back from the lead. It was a very good event although the ammo was held on camp it wasn't a massive test of logistics but proved that we needed vehicles to support an attack with supplies.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#53

ugly

LE
Moderator
#54
Dont get me wrong, I'm a grunt through and through, but no food or bullets make it a very short war! Even if we have cut CSS to the bone what we have still needs to be trained and practised at what it does!
 
#55
Sadly seems true, amazon doesn't deliver ammo and rats though!
Say it ain't so! Stop raining on my glorious J/N/G/A3 parade, you party pooper, with your realist loggie pish! Neither tea nor medals for you, you blanket-counting cockroach.
 
#56
The extent of exercising the logistic system currently involves attaching a large loggie troop to a battlegroup exercise in places like Kenya with the idea that this will provide meaningful training. The issue is that the battlegroup isnt used to having that additional loggie support, and has thus sorted their own logistics already. All ammo, orps and gs are already dealt with by the battlegroup or exercising DS with the loggies providing no more capability besides drivers and the odd ammo storeman.
Wow! Did they just magic the Ammo there?
 
#57
Quad bike and trailer was a quick fix solution
Would be interesting to see how many are actually utilised on exercise as per uglys original scheme
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#59
1 Per Coy a infantry Bn had in Kenya. Light Cav now has them on the orbat but not sure how they are being utilised yet.
I dont think my mate in the Yeomanry has seen them yet!
 
#60
That’s fine for resup within that unit/BG, but I don’t really think that needs exercising. It’s from the unit back that problems occur.
 

Similar threads

Top