Exercising the logistic chain

#21
Those MBEs don’t earn themselves.
Nail head moment, when your promotion depends upon how many diversity events you can organise for the CO to get his photograph taken in counts more than actually being good at your job shows how wrong it is.
Dont worry though its great prep for Civ Div where getting your boss in the in house magazine doing charity stuff youhave laid on is far more important when it comes to appraisal time.
Firms and bosses like these are why I tend to move on every few months!
 
#22
As was evidenced by PB's running out of ammo and rations in the fighting! Or coming damn close to it!
In my experience the infantry struggle with logistics. The tankies and gunners are about the best, probably because they are log heavy.

This is the problem you get because the RLC has always been trog based.
 
#23
As was evidenced by PB's running out of ammo and rations in the fighting! Or coming damn close to it!
I’ll defend the RLC on that one.

The woeful lack of helicopters compounded that one.

However, as an interesting dit, I used to know a STAB lance Jack from a logger unit. Their training one weekend consisted of transferring all of the stores from one wharehouse at Donnington into another..

That was achieved in 36 hours using STABS who were used to working in wharehouses. Their regular counterparts claimed it would’ve taken five days to do it
 
#24
In my experience the infantry struggle with logistics. The tankies and gunners are about the best, probably because they are log heavy.

This is the problem you get because the RLC has always been trog based.
Its not rocket science though is it, the yanks, the Russians and the Chinese all manage it, why is it so unsexy that we look down on the blokes that allow us to keep stabbing that bayonet into the bad guys?
 
#25
I’ll defend the RLC on that one.

The woeful lack of helicopters compounded that one.

However, as an interesting dit, I used to know a STAB lance Jack from a logger unit. Their training one weekend consisted of transferring all of the stores from one wharehouse at Donnington into another..

That was achieved in 36 hours using STABS who were used to working in wharehouses. Their regular counterparts claimed it would’ve taken five days to do it
Its not the fault of the Corps but the army as a whole, the magic rations, pol and bullets fairy doesn't exist!
 
#26
Ok I'll confess as to why this thread started; I was asking on the yeomanry thread who gets fresh hot scoff in the field. The only answers were repetitive ones, "Id rather have bombs and bullets (Para), We were fed once a fortnight on ex (Yeomanry), Where would the cook keep his kit (Yeomanry again).
If you expect your troops to lose a stone a week and thats ok then orps is ideal, I honesty dont know anyone who eats the whole pack or haven't yet.
If you want troops performance to physically degrade over two weeks then fine provided you have the extra time or manpower to make up the difference otherwise expect everything to slowly fall apart!

We won two world wars and various other brush wars eventually but the lessons were hard learned and we really shouldn't be having to relearn those lessons in the field with a much smaller army when we cant afford to make those mistakes as we dont have the slack available.
 
#27
Ok I'll confess as to why this thread started; I was asking on the yeomanry thread who gets fresh hot scoff in the field. The only answers were repetitive ones, "Id rather have bombs and bullets (Para), We were fed once a fortnight on ex (Yeomanry), Where would the cook keep his kit (Yeomanry again).
If you expect your troops to lose a stone a week and thats ok then orps is ideal, I honesty dont know anyone who eats the whole pack or haven't yet.
If you want troops performance to physically degrade over two weeks then fine provided you have the extra time or manpower to make up the difference otherwise expect everything to slowly fall apart!

We won two world wars and various other brush wars eventually but the lessons were hard learned and we really shouldn't be having to relearn those lessons in the field with a much smaller army when we cant afford to make those mistakes as we dont have the slack available.
With the B Ech, surely?
 
#28
Ugly, you like your scoff - we get that.

Lose a stone a week on ORP? Rubbish. We went weeks on ORP with minimal fresh supplement (the odd egg, an orange etc) and didn’t lose anywhere near that much weight. I lost a couple of stone over 6 months, mainly due to lack of booze.

It is all about priorities.
 
#29
I'm feeling this very strongly, I do agree, whilst infantry basic skills are important you still need to be able to do your job and therefore must practise it. The reality isn't likely to be section attacks but defending a convoy and first aid!
We do infantry exercises as well usually CT0 and CT1 as well as LFTT. The time that we have specifcally the trade training is taken up doing stuff other than trade.
 
#30
Ok I'll confess as to why this thread started; I was asking on the yeomanry thread who gets fresh hot scoff in the field. The only answers were repetitive ones, "Id rather have bombs and bullets (Para), We were fed once a fortnight on ex (Yeomanry), Where would the cook keep his kit (Yeomanry again).
If you expect your troops to lose a stone a week and thats ok then orps is ideal, I honesty dont know anyone who eats the whole pack or haven't yet.
If you want troops performance to physically degrade over two weeks then fine provided you have the extra time or manpower to make up the difference otherwise expect everything to slowly fall apart!

We won two world wars and various other brush wars eventually but the lessons were hard learned and we really shouldn't be having to relearn those lessons in the field with a much smaller army when we cant afford to make those mistakes as we dont have the slack available.
Interestingly, the Paras QMs always go above and beyond to make sure their guys are well fed. RRS are notiourously pish.

I’ve been on EX where the QM claims that they are responsible for three meals a day.

Breakfast arrives at 06:00, lunch at 17:00 and evening meal at 16:30. However that’s not a loggie issue.

I think the OP is wondering wether we actually send a battle group out on ex for several weeks at a time and test the hold thing. Not the nominal, ‘drive this tanker from here to here, pretend to fuel up a regiment of challengers and a battalion of warriors.

Probably not. We don’t seem to do big exercises any more.

Go on exercise Iron Triangle, a divisional exercise with no troops. Every time it’s run, the same mistakes get made.
 
#31
I’ll defend the RLC on that one.

The woeful lack of helicopters compounded that one.

However, as an interesting dit, I used to know a STAB lance Jack from a logger unit. Their training one weekend consisted of transferring all of the stores from one wharehouse at Donnington into another..

That was achieved in 36 hours using STABS who were used to working in wharehouses. Their regular counterparts claimed it would’ve taken five days to do it
I wont, while transportation to the end user is or can be a problem. I can name quite a few times that stores have been left in the receipts bay while the sqn did something like bayonet practise (again) while on tour.
 
#32
Its not rocket science though is it, the yanks, the Russians and the Chinese all manage it, why is it so unsexy that we look down on the blokes that allow us to keep stabbing that bayonet into the bad guys?
You want someone stabbed with a bayonet don't bother with the infantry just ask 4LSR to do it.
 
#33
(infantry) RRS are notoriously pish.
As ever, it depends. I've seen a sh!t QM/RQMS, and on one particular Div exercise, it was a fairly miserable time for all. Other times, we had a f***ing outstanding CQMS. It comes down to how you train.

We headed off for a weeks's field firing camp in sunny Stanford; the CO pushes all the companies out to dispersed locations, has us tabbing to each day's ranges (kept us out of any messes or bars, cunning move :p). Fortunately, we'd just been through SDR, and its whole bright idea of "split up HQ Coy, push slices of log support out to the Coys and make them independent" aka "remove any pretence at deploying formed units" [1]. Our chef was a f***ing God Among Men, and our CQMS took life seriously regarding food. We ate like Kings, to the envy of every other (less log-minded, and rather hungrier) Coy when they saw our CQMS wagon pull up...

But then, we did try to exercise our log chain, however short. One Company exercise weekend was laid on purely to exercise CASEVAC; namely, the rifle platoons each did an attack purely so we could tell them to evacuate four casualties backwards to the Company Aid Post. Cue much swearing from Pl Sgts and stretcher bearers, and slight giggling from me when I insisted that the casualties actually be loaded into the Coy Ambulance. Because we'd just got these shiny new Wolf things, and there was a five minute debate as to how to load the top two slots, no-one had ever tried it before, and the conversion course had only covered driving the things... (Muhahaha....)

You get what you train for.

[1] Yeah, like a CO is really going to see himself as "just there to coordinate four independent Company Groups". He promptly stole back the Coy-level stuff to try and form Bn HQ(-), and succeeded in creating a pile of Coy HQ(-). The moral of the tale is "you can't really run unit exercises if you don't have a unit ORBAT, but that won't stop a Lt.Col trying". The other lesson was exactly how valuable all those "extra" ORBAT posts were for training value. Ops Offr, Int Sect, Sigs Pl, RRTT... all hugely valuable.
 
Last edited:
#34
Yes I like my grub, in the field on ops or ex I would lose half a stone a week but after 3 weeks it would level off. In op work I would really shed the pounds and on one job was lucky to get flasks of hot brews and soup in live letter boxes. The more effort the cqms puts in the more the lads appreciate him. Some are good, but others are post filling
 
#35
@ugly

Have to tried the new rations? Honestly some of them are pretty decent. If lads are taking fresh scoff with them on EX, it saves rations and after a week on exersise you have plenty of spare food to eat if you get hungry. I'd would say fresh scoff is low on my priority, and I'm a junior myself.

I was attached to a RRS Bn, doing a strenuous job in Kenya. Deploying on final EX we had 5L of water and 2 days of rations(broken down and some thrown out to save weight). First day included a 15km TAB up and along some horrible hills.... 5L of water if you remember, was to last 2 days. I can tell you right now after about 50 hours on the move, I couldn't care less about fresh scoff or clean socks, all I wanted was a proper drink of water.

It only got worse as it went on, later on the exersise, having been withdrawing and being chased by the Enemy, we had missed the Replen from the Pln Csgt. When we finally reached safety of the Fighting company's we had no food or water. The CQMS give us some water, and some of the Pln Sgts asked their boys if they could spare some food as they were awaiting more rations aswell.

You might be right about exercising the Logistic chain, the Bn were just not able or had the knowledge on how to Replen soldiers so far forward of the main FLOT.
 
#36
Its not rocket science though is it, the yanks, the Russians and the Chinese all manage it, why is it so unsexy that we look down on the blokes that allow us to keep stabbing that bayonet into the bad guys?
Double edged sword, it’s that ethos of superiority that has always allowed the British Armed Forces to achieve so much.
 
#37
Yes I have tried most countries boilies and whilst some are good I think your lunch options are poor compared to compo or arctic compo. Yes you can get by, but when I worked with ghurkas they would make one ration pack do three blokes but if it does come to a war in Europe our tail is a long way away and if you think being short of blank on ex is just a thing then wait for log to fail for real.
It's OK excersising troops but you need to do the whole thing properly otherwise the cqms will think scoff comes from lidl
 
#38
Double edged sword, it’s that ethos of superiority that has always allowed the British Armed Forces to achieve so much.
By the skin of our teeth, and the Falklands was a close run thing and we had to relearn lessons on amphibious warfare in the general army, and logistics nearly failed when the Atlantic conveyor sank. We don't have the dulmens stuffed full of kit anymore
 
#39
You might be right about exercising the Logistic chain, the Bn were just not able or had the knowledge on how to Replen soldiers so far forward of the main FLOT.
Perhaps that needs exercising
 
#40
I recall one time where we exercised with Live ammo and the ORP. Memory is hazy as to when, but I think I was with 2CS at the time (possibly pre Telic 6?). As I recall, 1 UK Armd Div were very twitchy about us playing with the real stuff, but in the end, the only write off was for 2 24hr rat packs that got crushed. I scared the crap out of a couple of young lads who were handballing a load of small arms ammo off of a flatrack. They were cradling each H83 in both arms and gingerly carrying each one to the pallets they were cross loading to, until I grabbed a couple of H83's and lobbed them towards the pallets.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top