Ex Green Warrior/Mettle

#1
Having just completed the first week of the package I found the whole experience surprisingly good!!!

It was well organised with very little hurry up and wait. Most importantly it was progressive training and I defy anyone to say that they gained nothing from it.

On a personal note I have never done pairs or fire team F&M with live rounds before.

I can't comment on week 2 as I was busy diving into a hole and knackering my knee, but if the first week was anything to go by it should be interesting.
 
#2
imperial_lion said:
Having just completed the first week of the package I found the whole experience surprisingly good!!!

It was well organised with very little hurry up and wait. Most importantly it was progressive training and I defy anyone to say that they gained nothing from it.

On a personal note I have never done pairs or fire team F&M with a rifle before and am wholly appreciative of the opportunity to do it.

I can't comment on week 2 as I was busy diving into a hole and knackering my knee, but if the first week was anything to go by it should be interesting.
Are you taking the fucking piss? By F&M do you mean fire and manoeuvre? If you do and having completed basic training you are saying that you've never been instructed in this discipline at that level then something, somewhere has gone seriously tits up in your basic instruction.

The really sad thing is my infantry skills could never be called anything more than basic and even I have done this.

:pissedoff:
 
#3
252_me said:
imperial_lion said:
Having just completed the first week of the package I found the whole experience surprisingly good!!!

It was well organised with very little hurry up and wait. Most importantly it was progressive training and I defy anyone to say that they gained nothing from it.

On a personal note I have never done pairs or fire team F&M with a rifle before and am wholly appreciative of the opportunity to do it.

I can't comment on week 2 as I was busy diving into a hole and knackering my knee, but if the first week was anything to go by it should be interesting.
Are you taking the fucking urine? By F&M do you mean fire and manoeuvre? If you do and having completed basic training you are saying that you've never been instructed in this discipline at that level then something, somewhere has gone seriously tits up in your basic instruction.

The really sad thing is my infantry skills could never be called anything more than basic and even I have done this.

:pissedoff:
i think he means live fire and manoeuvre.
 
#4
Yes,
I mean live fire and manouvre, doing it with blank really doesn't count. If they are now doing live F&M in basic training then things have moved on quite a bit but this is the first time i have done it with the rifle.
 
#5
Phew, I can come down off the ceiling now.

You never said live fire and manoeuvre! Although I've always mimed when I've done it.........
 
#6
Admittedly I did feel like shouting bang!!

What really pains me is that I was doing live f&m in mid nineties as a LCpl with a pistol when I was in NI but it took 14 years to do it with a rifle. We must do more of this type of training, especially given the volatile nature of the current sandy holiday resorts.
 
#7
Its being looked at, i was interviewed by some people from chickers about experiences in hot and dusty places. They are looking at altering cadres so that we are trained more appropriate manner to the situations we may face.
 
#8
imperial_lion said:
Having just completed the first week of the package I found the whole experience surprisingly good!!!

It was well organised with very little hurry up and wait. Most importantly it was progressive training and I defy anyone to say that they gained nothing from it.

On a personal note I have never done pairs or fire team F&M with live rounds before.
I can't comment on week 2 as I was busy diving into a hole and knackering my knee, but if the first week was anything to go by it should be interesting.
I am amazed.

Is it me or does the publication "Army Operational Shooting Policy" state that A&S should train up fire team (4 peeps). A&S soldiers are to be competent in attack (limited) as well as in defence.

This could be with all wpn systems, rifle, L109 HE grenade, 51mm mortar
(ops only), GPMG etc.

Our unit regulary trains with all the above wpn systems up to fire team and it pays dividends. As a comd I am confident with the ability of my troops and would have no quarms about their skills if ever we found ourselves in a contact situation.

Once a grunt, always a grunt!
 
#10
Try being in the "mostly weekends" part of the Glorious Corps then with sixty rounds at 25m per year - maybe a hundred if you're lucky.

But what's Bn Camp for I hear you cry - repeating the MATT shoot is the regrettably true answer. Oh, and some AT. And getting f@cked around to suit the G4 staff - but I digress.
 
#11
T21A, I think I see the problem here. You believe that all soldiers should be trained battle shots, something I completely agree with.

However, given that the Corps rarely has enough ammunition to conduct an APWT and zeroing shoot, the kind of activity undertaken on ExGW was 'dare I say it' bloody unique.

Reference the utilisation of the other weapon systems, yeah right!!!!
 
#12
Hmm,

In an ideal world:

Firstly there's your mandatory weekly PT sessions

Secondly your Pre-CFT training

Thirdly your shooting prior to attempting an APWT

Then there's the training required prior to doing the other MATTs

In reality, all tests done ASAP after April with no prior preparation.

Whilst the onus should be on the individual to maintain their mil skills and fitness as a matter of pride, when push comes to shove if people aren't getting the mandatory training required then they simply blame the system rather than themselves.

Also in an ideal world you'd do live firing fire and manoeuvre annually...........
 
#13
imperial_lion said:
T21A, I think I see the problem here. You believe that all soldiers should be trained battle shots, something I completely agree with.

However, given that the Corps rarely has enough ammunition to conduct an APWT and zeroing shoot, the kind of activity undertaken on ExGW was 'dare I say it' bloody unique.

Reference the utilisation of the other weapon systems, yeah right!!!!
Does the fault lie with ATRA then?

A little known fact - each soldier should throw 2 HE grenades a year!
 
#14
Callsign_T21A said:
imperial_lion said:
T21A, I think I see the problem here. You believe that all soldiers should be trained battle shots, something I completely agree with.

However, given that the Corps rarely has enough ammunition to conduct an APWT and zeroing shoot, the kind of activity undertaken on ExGW was 'dare I say it' bloody unique.

Reference the utilisation of the other weapon systems, yeah right!!!!
Does the fault lie with ATRA then?

A little known fact - each soldier should throw 2 HE grenades a year!
I 'should' be in z-type accomodation, we 'should' have been done and dusted in Iraq by now, the nhs 'should' have been sorted out under new labour.

A lot of things should happen in this country but never do. :)
 
#15
evilgenius said:
Callsign_T21A said:
imperial_lion said:
T21A, I think I see the problem here. You believe that all soldiers should be trained battle shots, something I completely agree with.

However, given that the Corps rarely has enough ammunition to conduct an APWT and zeroing shoot, the kind of activity undertaken on ExGW was 'dare I say it' bloody unique.

Reference the utilisation of the other weapon systems, yeah right!!!!
Does the fault lie with ATRA then?

A little known fact - each soldier should throw 2 HE grenades a year!
Tell me about it.

I 'should' be in z-type accomodation, we 'should' have been done and dusted in Iraq by now, the nhs 'should' have been sorted out under new labour.

A lot of things should happen in this country but never do. :)
 
#16
252_me said:
Hmm,

In an ideal world:

Firstly there's your mandatory weekly PT sessions

Secondly your Pre-CFT training

Thirdly your shooting prior to attempting an APWT

Then there's the training required prior to doing the other MATTs

In reality, all tests done ASAP after April with no prior preparation.

Whilst the onus should be on the individual to maintain their mil skills and fitness as a matter of pride, when push comes to shove if people aren't getting the mandatory training required then they simply blame the system rather than themselves.

Also in an ideal world you'd do live firing fire and manoeuvre annually...........
Hey, look at the positives. This is proof that the "One Army" concept works and that the TA and Regulars are treated the same.
 
#17
Funny old thing, we're supposed to conduct live firing on a monthly basis & pass the results back up the chain. Unfortunately, the sad lack of training ammunition means we can't really achieve too much. There's always the DCCT, which is a valuable tool, but it's no replacement for bags of ammo & a day on the ranges. As for live HE grenades, a great idea - but there are one or two special kids that I'm really not too keen to act as safety supervisor for......!

Live F&M - surely a basic skill? I remember doing it on RSOI after arriving on TELIC 5 as part of the madatory range package. Still, it's something that we should do regularly. Perhaps people might be more inclined to look after their basic fitness if they knew they'd be doubling about SENTA/STANTA/wherever carrying a full set of webbing. That, and the fact that the Paras using RMP, Engrs etc to form composite sections in some of the firefights in Helmand not so long ago.
 
#18
There is a another point here, if a random unit (say 2 MI Bn) is away doing all their required training, when do they fit in (with deployments, career courses, leave, adventure training*, Bn exercises, personal development, etc, etc) their valuable PS/CI work?

* said with straight face
 
#19
Valuable PS/CI work? Surely you jest. Cadet huts more like, a never ending stream of them reaching out towards infinity........

BTW what's adventure training? I've only been in 11 years, when do i get some?
 
#20
252_me said:
There is a another point here, if a random unit (say 2 MI Bn) is away doing all their required training, when do they fit in (with deployments, career courses, leave, adventure training*, Bn exercises, personal development, etc, etc) their valuable PS/CI work?

* said with straight face
Notwithstanding your "straight face" 252 I have to perhaps point out the
possible misguided use of the words "valuable" and "CI" in your post.......

Said with an ever straighter face
 
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