Evacuation operations

Discussion in 'Syria, Mali, Libya, Middle East & North Africa' started by chrisg46, Feb 23, 2011.

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  1. chrisg46

    chrisg46 LE Book Reviewer

    Having read this story, (BBC News - Libya protests: Evacuation plans of foreign governments) i was wondering, when sending in aircraft and/or ships to evacuate civilians from warzones, do we/they get permission from the host country or is it a case of "we are coming in anyway"?
    After all, Quadaffi would be a bit nervous about all these foreign military planes flying over his airspace, and ships off his coast it must bring back some bad memories!

    Is there any scope for a foreign power do like we did in Sierra Leone and land troops at an airfield or port while civvies are taken out?
    I am not advocating such a course of action, just curious!
     
  2. At its most extreme the NEO doctrine says we could enter under Article 51 of the UN Charter - i.e., the "inherent right to self defence" which could arguably be extended to all citizens, wherever they are. However, most NEOs would be done under a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) or a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA). Clearly the situation is key - is the environment permissive, semi-permissive or non-permissive?

    Who says doctrine isn't exciting?
     
  3. "Is there any scope for a foreign power do like we did in Sierra Leone and land troops at an airfield or port while civvies are taken out?
    I am not advocating such a course of action, just curious! "

    We could, but it would be the worst case scenario as the images of foreign troops on Libyan soil would be a bit of a disaster. We really really really don't want to have to put foreign boots on the ground unless we have to.

    The civilian evacuations seem to be working okay right now, getting the military involved must be a last resort.
     
  4. What's the normal Frech response ? If I remember rightly they jumped in and secured an airport, warned the locals to stay away and not interfere then bombed the local Airbase when attacked.....
     
  5. Oh no! Do you not realise that you have just broken the First ARSSE Convention?
     
  6. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

  7. One thing you can say for the French, the phrase " political correctness" just doesn't seem to translate. They tend to do what they ****ing want without worrying too much what anyone thinks.
     
  8. Grumblegrunt

    Grumblegrunt LE Book Reviewer

    send in the italians I reckon cos when they get it wrong the germans will get in there and sort it out all the way to the egyptian border :)

    bloke on the telly, one of the oil workers asking for a c130 to go in and pick them up. cant see the mod doing that, costs money you know!
     
  9. We probably pay between 50%- 65% of our earnings in direct and indirect taxes to a government that spends money like it's going out of fashion on shite, and yet we, as a nation, can't even manage to get our citizens out of Libya....

    But I bet that there's already a queue of Lybians at the UK Border to claim asylum though

    ****ing shambles
     
  10. Just heard some Jock on radio,saying ''The British response is not enough''.He went there in the first place.Let his company or the Scottish Government get him out!
     
  11. To be fair its saying the FFL went in and kicked arse rather than those cheese eating surrender monkeys.
     
  12. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

    Lets put it this way - could the British forces do the same? Budget is slightly higher but somehow the capability is somewhat less - How is that exactly? Cause I don't see the French fleet having carriers without planes etc etc etc.
     
  13. Grumblegrunt

    Grumblegrunt LE Book Reviewer

    when they pulled out of mainstream nato they got into the habit of making sure they could go it alone with their own nucs and capacity to hold the germans off for more than 10 minutes, not having huge standing tank armies on the rhine helped a lot I reckon. we have become too reliant on the US after we handed the oceans over and let them look after our key air defenses

    plus we ran away from our colonies whereas the french either tried to take them back or at least maintained a civil and military presence post revolution.

    I think blair like the idea of being more frog like hense SL and FYR but he screwed it up with iraq. cameron doesnt understand power projection hence the silly cuts.
     
  14. Quote ["Just heard some Jock on radio,saying ''The British response is not enough''.He went there in the first place.Let his company or the Scottish Government get him out! "]

    Don't forget a lot of British expat workers are paying your wages; better a taxpayer gets government support than a bloody immigrant!


    Regards, a Jock expat taxpaying (40%) worker!
     
  15. I have a few points to raise with the evacuation in general.....

    1. Shouldn't British citizens maybe think long and hard before they go to work in an unstable country in a volatile area of the world run by a lunatic dictator?

    2. Why was there no EU response, with the French/Germans perhaps offering to help GB out? Isn't this why we have the EU foreign ministry? If memory serves when Britain intervened in Sierra Leone we evacuated ALL EU nationals, not just the British.

    3. Should HMG be expected to go to anywhere in the world to rescue anyone at anytime?

    4. Do expatriates, though British by birth and doubtless with passports, pay UK tax?