Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by OLDBIGHEAD, Dec 10, 2008.

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  1. the sun

    Quite sad :( . Id do it in his position. Thoughts?
  2. It's been on Sky News all morning.

    Fcuking right I'd do the same.
  3. Sad indeed.

    But is the right to take one's own life a basic human right?
  4. It's your life, ergo you can do whatever you want with it.
  5. I can see both sides of the story, and feel for those concerned, but where do you draw the line..?
  6. PTP, is it not better going like that than being a selfish t#at and hanging/shooting themselves?

    The guy was suffering badly, and him and his family took the decision.

    Right or wrong, I would rather do that than let a loved one suffer.
  7. I doubt I'd want t live on if I was suffering and had exhausted all hope, but at the same time I can see the anti argument. The frail and elderly could easily feel themselves pressured to go before they wanted. I think on the whole an emotional response based on pity would make bad law and could easily be abused. The right to life has to be sacrosanct and the right to control the direction or duration of life necessarily second.
  8. I don't disagree with you Heid.

    But doesn't current EU law specifically prohibit going out in this fashion? Should the right to take your own life, albeit in assisted and humane fashion, be a part of the HRA?
  9. It is something that I would wish be available when I consider I need or want it. I can understand all the debate. Why not leave it as now - make it available in those countries that permit it and check the motives and actions of anyone who assists, Have a very high level of criminal activity as a decision factor as to whether anyone assisting should be prosecuted.
  10. Its a hard one to call. I think the fact it has been in all the papers and all over the news is a bad thing, it just opens the floodgates for everyone as someone has previously mentioned.

    I think EU law does forbid it, but there must be a loophole somewhere.

    I personally think they shouldn't have been allowed to film it.
  11. PTP I would agree if a person is healthy and decides to do this as an escape from pressure or a depressing situation.
    However this person would not be able to live were it not for technology, and what form of life can technology offer him? Breathing and eating through a tube is not my idea of living, no wind in your face, no feeling the rain and sun, no biting into an apple.
    He can't share fully with his family, they have to suffer watching him suffer, and he knows this and cares about them. The family have done all they can, what do you want them to do now, simply prolong the inevitable? Now the family can mourn and get on with their lives. The wife said 'Safe Journey', now whether you or I or the dog believe in an afterlife is not important, they obviously do and so death is not the horror that it is for other people. The family have talked it out, it is not his decision alone.
    What right do we have to impose our beliefs over theirs simply because we believe that life is all there is?

    Healers used to learn to cure where you can but let the dying spirit go. His body can't maintain him, science can't cure him, let him go.

    Heidtheba sums it up well, I fcukin' would as well, nae probs.
  12. [Healers used to learn to cure where you can but let the dying spirit go. His body can't maintain him, science can't cure him, let him go.

    Very well put.
  13. It resonates with me, because my father , having had one stroke and a 94% recovery was terrified of another one reducing him to a vegetative state, and dependant for survival on his family.

    He was a brilliant mind , and had spoken about it to us, that if he had another one that disabled him, we were to make absolutely sure if offered a choice, the machine was to be turned off.

    Whether we could have 'assisted' Dignitas style, is a question I would rather not dwell on.
  14. My father in law suffered from a condition classed as Cerebellar ataxia, which is a blanket term that covers a number of possible casues. There are common features such as it being progressive slowly and can take years to get to a bad stake, so it creeps up.

    Walking becomes increasingly difficult, eventually leading to mobilty scooters and wheelchairs. Incontinence follows and then difficulties with swallowing and slurred speech. General motor functions get crappy and sight and hearing also be affected but through all this intellectual faculties not affected. There is no cure.

    So the net result was over a period of four years he went from being fully active to bedridden, virtually unable to move let alone walk, unable to talk, became quite deaf and his vision poor and had to be fed via a tube. Quality of life: zero.

    He communicated via a touchpad using the very limited finger movement he had left and to tap out a few words would take ages. One of the last things he managed to spell out before he became really bad was to the effect that if he had even guessed how bad it would get he would have topped himself years before but by the time he sussed that out he no longer had the ability to do so by himself.

    In the end heart failure did for him after a pretty vile period where he needed 24 hour care, was in constant pain and was incapable of doing anything apart from existing.

    No thanks. I am resolved to head for the exit by myself if anything like that looks likely.
  15. I understand what you say, but if you truly love a person then how can you not help them avoid pain or loss of personality, which is what a vegetative state is?
    My own father was a doctor, who like many of his generation hit the bottle heavily at nights and ended up with cirhosis and eventually unconscious on a life-support system. Mum agreed to a transplant which the medical team said was possible though not normal for a man just turned seventy.
    (My brother and I were not sure that this was the best option for more than one reason.)
    Two tears later the liver began to fail and after a week in hospital getting jabbed every day and no propspect of any change Dad asked to be taken home. I will never forget the look on his face when he said "Just get me out of here I want to go home", with pain and desperation in his voice.
    I never had any doubts, we took him home filled him with rum, shaved him, hugged him, and watched him drift away in his own house surrounded by his family with his dog at his side. - Better than being blown apart by a bomb in Bagdad leaving dependant wife and kids.
    The doctors couldn't do anything for Dad, they let us take him home without demur. We helped my Dad when he needed it, and didn't submit him to a life of pain simply because we were terrified of death, and of that I am pleased and wouldn't change my decision in any way.

    PTP, when someone you love is suffering, and there is no way forward you find the strength.