Eurofighter Tranche 3: Oh please, God, no

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by pcar964, May 15, 2009.

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    Why can't Harriers be fitted with canon or gatling gun to give us an A10 equivalent?

    Harrier seems like an ideal platform for an A10 replacement, can be there faster than an Apache, but can then stand off and fire like an Apache.

    Maybe I'm niave, but I can't see why this hasn't been implemented.
  2. Jobs, votes, cushy post-politics jobs in defence procurement.

    And coz big shiny planes make politicians' willies go all hard.
  3. Plus of course they had no other choice, we were committed to buy them from the off.
  4. My bold - because they're old? Knackered? Getting thrashed in afghanistan? 1 less of them as of this week?
  5. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Because we tied the boxheads in when they got wobbly a few years ago. Theres no way our of it without paying anyway.
  6. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    Oh good, now we have a crate we can win the Cold war with.
  7. Air frames don't last forever fella the only have so many hours left on them. The Eurofighter is not a replacement for the Harrier.
  8. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    Yes but Typhoon seems to me to be an extraordinarily risky and expensive way of delivering ground attack.
  9. Harrier #1 had 30mm cannons, but our Harrier II's made half and half with Spams doesnt (ours are fitted for but not with, but US have 25mm M61?).

    Harriers can only hover for 60 secs due to engine overheating, and i can tell you that it is not meant to operate like an apache!

    Eurofighter fills the air defence role quite nicely, we probably dont need 212 BUT these Tranche 3 planes have full air to ground capability. Which is just what we need no?
  10. Dont think that Harriers are cheap either, £60,000 every flying hour was mentioned somewhere else i think?
  11. Ground attack will be the job of Tornado an excellent air to ground platform.
  12. Or which, even without the full range of weapons clearances (something which could be rectified with more airframes and the cash to do this - you'd need the expenses claims of about a dozen MPs) could, if deployed to theatre* reach TIC quicker than anything else in the RAF orbat and then deliver more ordnance onto Mr T Taleban than anything else in the crab inventory (Harrier = 4 x PWIV, no gun/ GR4= 9 x Brimstone, or 2 x EPW or mix thereof plus 27mm/ Typhoon = 6 x EPW plus 27mm). Being newer, the chances of it aborting on the way

    Deprive Mr Malik of his TV, Mr Hogg of his dredged moat, etc, etc to clear the beast for a wider range of weapons and a two ship could appear overhead with a mix of EPWII, PWIV, Brimstone and perhaps 1,000lb free fall (if required) plus cannon ammo between them and you have a wider variety of ways of allowing Terry to fulfil his wish for martyrdom.

    And this is a bad thing how, exactly?

    If Typhoon were operated by the RN, Page would be praising this decision to high heaven. His hatred of the crabs is posionous, and the sooner people stop taking him seriously about air power [and other military issues, for that matter] the better.

    * Typhoon can't be deployed at the moment because if we deploy Typhoon we can't defend UK airspace thanks to the Treasury cutting the F3 fleet early (with more cuts to come, hurrah!), and to save money, 24 airframes which should've been with the RAF this year will be in Saudi Arabia.

    Edit - Harrier won't get a gun now; the only item which could be procured in the short term would be the USMC GAU-12, which would leave the Harrier without the two fuselage stations which carry the Sniper pod and the counter-measures pod. They can use CRV-7 rockets with considerable accuracy; while I have not met a Harrier mate (light or dark blue) who wouldn't like a gun, they reckon that they can do pretty well with the rockets if the need arises.
  13. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    I think its a great move and we should get on with the order.

    It has started to achieve some maturity and costs will fall, in fact it becomes something of a bargain comparatively speaking.

    Some more info here


    I thought it was cleared for everything we had, whats not on the list
  14. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    It can but the MoD binned it.
    BAE finally got it to work effectively, only for the MOD to cancel it as a cost saving measure as, following GWI, their view of the future of the Harrier was as a medium level bomber who didn't need a strafing capability!!!.
    Cannon pods were fitted to the aircraft is they help improve hover performance in that they act as an air dam and trap a cushion of air under the fuselage, increasing lift slightly. The cannon pods were delivered empty as it was expected the aforementioned 25mm gun would be fitted when it was ready, but it was cancelled instead but the gun pods were retained as preference to the fuselage strakes or LIDS (lift improvement devices), of which only very small quantities were originally purchased/

    When it was decided to take the GR7/9s aboard the RN aircraft carriers, and it was clear that the harrier would not be having a gun of any type, more of the fuselage strakes were bought as they provided a slightly greater performance boost than the gun pods, enabling better hover performance at high weights which meant greater bring back (fuel and weapons payload) to the carriers. So from 2001 onwards it became more common to see the strakes than the gun pods, and the pods are almost never carried these days as there are enough fuselage strakes to go around the serviceable airframes.
  15. Meridian - it's the old confusion between what it is capable of carrying and what it's cleared to carry at the moment (a distinction lost on the likes of Page and Sir Max Hastings).

    At the moment, it is cleared to carry EPWII and 1,000lb freefall weapons, plus the Litening III pod.

    I would assume that if a decision to leave the AD of the UK in the hands of a few F3s, one squadron of Typhoons, the Red Arrows, the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight and the Bicester Windrushers Flying Club (that is not an idea, Mr Hutton) and deploy 11 Sqn were taken this year, then PWIV at least would be cleared under a UOR, and possibly Brimstone too.

    In due course, the aircraft is meant to be cleared for Storm Shadow, and the 2,000lb PWIII; it is capable of carrying ALARM, but things seem to have gone strangely quiet in press releases as to whether it'll take on a SEAD role as well. It could also carry Maverick and CRV-7 if needed and funded (CRV-7 keeps getting caught in the 'Oh, rockets are so passe /oh heck, we've nearly run out of them and they're vital' merry-go-round at the moment).