Euro Killing Half of Europe ?

#1
The strength or weakness of a country is its economy. The EU economy is in the doldrums. I doubt if it will emerge any time soon because if it does it will mean that socialism will have been discredited and cast aside.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1061-2421880,00.html

Hungarians marked the brutal suppression of their democracy by Soviet tanks 50 years ago by rioting against their elected Government. In Italy, the Government’s credit rating was reduced to the same level as Botswana’s, and Romano Prodi seemed on the verge of losing a vote of confidence, just six months after sweeping his reviled and derided predecessor, Silvio Berlusconi, from power. The British Home Secretary welcomed Bulgarians and Romanians into the European Union by restricting their ability to seek jobs.
 
#3
Thanks for finding that artical.
I still say that one day thre will have to be a United Europe. But in say 50 or 100 years time.
Now is the wrong time, the Economies are not in line and what is right for one ( Germany) is not what is required for all.
The current system exsists so all the old followers of the failed religion Comunisam can have their place and say. Its wrong and as normal the people will suffer while the Fat Cats, often Failed national Statesmen, proffet.
john
 
#4
jonwilly said:
Thanks for finding that artical.
I still say that one day thre will have to be a United Europe. But in say 50 or 100 years time.
Now is the wrong time, the Economies are not in line and what is right for one ( Germany) is not what is required for all.
The current system exsists so all the old followers of the failed religion Comunisam can have their place and say. Its wrong and as normal the people will suffer while the Fat Cats, often Failed national Statesmen, proffet.
john
Can You tell me a time when the people at the busy end of industry haven't suffered and why Fat Cats always profit.

Can You tell me why there is no industry in Great Britain anymore, why ships are more likely to be built in Germany than in the UK, why Germany still has a steel industry and France still has French owned motor manufacturers???
 
#5
Fat Cats, Labour Fat Cats.
Where you ever a trades unionist like me and see the Tw@ts at the bottom of their system.
No cloth caps, House of Lords for Leaders who sell their members out.
Yes no heavy industry in UK not economical.
How long will any European nation have massive industrial complexes when you can pass on the Problems to newly emerging nations.
And the Brit car industry exports more cars then EVER (look the figures up).
john
See the other post I sent you.
Bye.
 
#6
jonwilly said:
Fat Cats, Labour Fat Cats.
An excellent point. The fattest cats in many countries, including this one, are politicians. From Jurassic Perks, like free housing and RAF-air holidays to special treatment from the NHS and Inland Revenue, they make me sick.
 
#7
I was dragged up to be Labour. Strong Labour area, never elected anything since Labour was formed.
Your Working class you vote Labour was the cry when I was a kid.
I still detest the union man where I first worked, little Hitler, nasty peice of work.
The 70's convinced me that Labour is wrong, tells ordinary folk they are for them but like all politicians they are for themself.
Industry, Big Business provieds the money for Governement and need to be listened to.
Otherwise we will all end up as Slaves to a Socialist state.
john
 
#8
tomahawk6 said:
The strength or weakness of a country is its economy. The EU economy is in the doldrums. I doubt if it will emerge any time soon because if it does it will mean that socialism will have been discredited and cast aside.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1061-2421880,00.html

Hungarians marked the brutal suppression of their democracy by Soviet tanks 50 years ago by rioting against their elected Government. In Italy, the Government’s credit rating was reduced to the same level as Botswana’s, and Romano Prodi seemed on the verge of losing a vote of confidence, just six months after sweeping his reviled and derided predecessor, Silvio Berlusconi, from power. The British Home Secretary welcomed Bulgarians and Romanians into the European Union by restricting their ability to seek jobs.
Socialism is the correct model, its just like the others it needs to be gotten right for it to work well, which is currently isn’t.

And the main problem with the EU economy is two fold, one the massive subsidies to nations like France that they utterly don’t deserve whilst the poorer countries are left with jack, and two is the Euro, because all their economies are linked by currencies they are all at least in part reliant on the others so the smaller countries and the gits (France) pull the other countries down. The Euro was implemented far far to soon, but then guess who we have to blame for that, again.
 
#9
Sven said:
Can You tell me a time when the people at the busy end of industry haven't suffered and why Fat Cats always profit.
Because the 'fat cats' create the businesses and take the risk in the first place. They spend most of their time being 'thin cats' and many do not make it to being 'fat' at all. Unlike many on the shop floor however they do not winge like a jilted princess when it goes wrong, they dust themselves off and start again. The people at 'the busy end of industry' are employees - they don't like it then they leave to another job or start their own business as a 'thin cat'.
Sven said:
Can You tell me why there is no industry in Great Britain anymore, why ships are more likely to be built in Germany than in the UK, why Germany still has a steel industry and France still has French owned motor manufacturers???
A number of reasons: first Germans are special, put any German near a lathe and you'll get a world class product - this is acknowledged all over the world. The UK workforce was in the 1960/70's rubbish; idle, self deluded, blinkered, militant garbage by and by. Management was even worse and as always finance was and is short term - give me a return in six months or **** off. Hence the collapse of much of our engineering legacy. State sponsored industries like the French car industry only work if 1, the population are patriotic enough only to buy local - the French (but does not mean the Companies are stable or in profit). 2, your product is so good that you would be mad to buy anything else - The Germans.

As mentioned on other threads the current UK workforce is degrading again and is certainly my last choice when it comes to employing people.
 
#10
Drago_Drake said:
Socialism is the correct model, its just like the others it needs to be gotten right for it to work well, which is currently isn’t.
Oh please..................haven't stopped laughing after that chestnut :roll:

There is no ideal or perfect political model, all are flawed because they have human input and are subject to the whims of the person in power, who eventually is corrupted by the power they wield.
 
#11
AJ Jonwilly did not say that. T'was Sven. Oh the slings and arrows of outragous waffle.
Jonwilly understands what you are saying.
Brother grafted like a swartzer to make his millions, and triple bypass before my age. Young jon was military then civvy ac engineer. John is no businessman never was and never will be.
In that repect he is like most so called businessmen most of whom he is only too willing to watch commit proffesional suicide.
A good friend is Finacial Director of a major local company and it's ammazing to listen to his comments on 'Folk' who try to make it locally.
john
Seen um come and go and I have seen um die.
 
#12
I'm not sure I get the link between the Euro and socialism... and the Italian government has been colapsing on and off for the past 30 years.

I have to agree with AJ about the fat cat thin cat statement. I only know of cats who have remained thin after successfully starting an industrial business (bar a handful). The only fat cats are the financiers and marketters who change products into phenomena and were fat cats to start with.

As for polititians.. they earn 60 grand a year + 120 grand in expences to pay their own staff. The must get a little of that cream, but they earn less than any merchant banker with 2 years experience.

As for socialism, it's alive and kicking here in Denmark (non-Euro) and industry is booming. You're more than welcome to join us - we're in the EU. but be prepared to earn 20-30 grand (AT ALL LEVELS) and then pay 50% income tax going up to 60% at 20 grand. You'll probably be able to afford one 6 year old car per family and go abroad on holiday once every 4 years (cars cost 2½ time what you pay.) You will be responsible for cleaning the pavement outside your house and you will be able to afford to go out (eat drink) about once a fortnight. In return you get great busses. designer hospitals (unfortunately with a lower success rate than the NHS) and great unemployment benefit. This actually suits a huge number of people (I've become happily used to it), but I wonder if it really suits all the people who think true socialism is so great.

But if nothing else; remember: A bayonet is a weapon with a worker on both ends :D
 
#13
dui-lai said:
Drago_Drake said:
Socialism is the correct model, its just like the others it needs to be gotten right for it to work well, which is currently isn’t.
Oh please..................haven't stopped laughing after that chestnut :roll:

There is no ideal or perfect political model, all are flawed because they have human input and are subject to the whims of the person in power, who eventually is corrupted by the power they wield.
Communism while a wonderful idea is completely unworkable due to human nature. Capitalism inevitably results in a good portion of the population being destitute and lacking access to vital facilities. Socialism is the middle ground. Perhaps calling it the political model was a tad overzealous, but in this day and age it beats all competitors.

And your correct that it is usually human error that causes problems, that doesn’t however mean a system cant be sound.
 
#14
tomahawk6 said:
The strength or weakness of a country is its economy. The EU economy is in the doldrums. I doubt if it will emerge any time soon because if it does it will mean that socialism will have been discredited and cast aside.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1061-2421880,00.html

Hungarians marked the brutal suppression of their democracy by Soviet tanks 50 years ago by rioting against their elected Government. In Italy, the Government’s credit rating was reduced to the same level as Botswana’s, and Romano Prodi seemed on the verge of losing a vote of confidence, just six months after sweeping his reviled and derided predecessor, Silvio Berlusconi, from power. The British Home Secretary welcomed Bulgarians and Romanians into the European Union by restricting their ability to seek jobs.
There is no link between this article and socialism ya daft apeth. France, the architect of political integration, sees its vision as above socialist philosophy.

Using Italy as the high water mark for the EU's progress is like visiting Brighton and Hove Albion FC to measure the state of English football :D It's spurious in other words, since Italy is and will always be a basketcase but likely to reform more within an EU framework than without.

Remember Britain's vision for Europe is very different than France's.

Pure capitalism of course has left the US with massive deficits, a shallow cultural heritage and millions without basic health care and a huge underclass akin to some parts of the Third World. And let's not begin to mention their crime and homicide rate.
 
#15
jonwilly said:
AJ Jonwilly did not say that.
Sorry John, fat fingers, now corrected.
 
#17
BoomShackerLacker said:
Pure capitalism of course has left the US with massive deficits, a shallow cultural heritage and millions without basic health care and a huge underclass akin to some parts of the Third World. And let's not begin to mention their crime and homicide rate.
Corrrect , I have been to the US 5 times now, nice country, beautiful scenery, friendly people, totally let down by the system, I find Social Darwinsim distatsteful, many American would love to come to Britian for a holiday, but many could not hope to do it in their lifetime as they live precariously, their employment status is could be gone next week as it is easier to hire and fire than it is in the UK, in some states minimum wage is a joke, some states don't even have one, two weeks holiday in your first five years if you are lucky, THREE weeks after 10 years service, Medicare well if you don't have insurance, your're stuffed, I have heard of one case a man needed medication for cancer but this cost him $250 a day, to earn the money he needs to work, but he cannot work as he is too ill to do so, not my idea of a One nation under one flag indivisable it is split from top to bottom with the underclass way below.

even my cousin from Canada has said "it is all hype in America"

this is not a dig at Ordinary American citizens, i quite like the people and the countryside, just feel for them as the system lets them down.

as to the EU, we are similar in someways, except it is a bit better, we are now slowly having a borderless travel throughout the EU, One currency, socialised medical care thru most of the European states, standard have improved in roads, trade, legal systems, policing, free movement of people to settle in another state, a wide variety of scenery within the EU, different cultures and cheap travel to get to them, we have come a long way since the end of WW2 many things were achieved that was unimaginable 60 years ago, i probably won't see a united states of Europe in the federal model in my lifetime, but i would prefer this to the alternative 70 years ago were many self serving countries were fighting each other and the threat of war was ever present.

The Euro can be strengthened in time when/if it gets used for selling and buying Oil instead of US dollars time will tell.
 

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